MCNAMARA, ZEESE, LEE AND O'CONNELL VISIT NYT DRUG POLICY FORUM

On Monday, November 5, the NYTimes Drug Policy forum hosted a special panel
with four national drug reform activists. This panel was part of a series
organized by the forum participants.

Special Panelists:

Hoover Institution scholar and former police chief of San Jose and Kansas
City JOSEPH MCNAMARA is the author of the forthcoming book 'Gangster Cops:
The Hidden Cost of America's War on Drugs.' Items by or about Chief
McNamara are at http://www.mapinc.org/people/Joseph+McNamara

KEVIN ZEESE has worked on a wide array of drug policy related issues as
shown here: http://www.csdp.org/kz/ Common Sense for Drug Policy has three
websites: http://www.csdp.org/ http://www.drugwarfacts.org/ and
http://www.narcoterror.org/ Items by or about Mr. Zeese are at
http://www.mapinc.org/people/Kevin+Zeese

KAY LEE's activism has included leading four Journey for Justice treks
across the states of Ohio, Wisconsin, Florida and Texas. For details visit
her website at http://www.journeyforjustice.org/ A number of news articles
about these treks may be found at this link http://www.mapinc.org/journey.htm

THOMAS O'CONNELL, MD, retired recently as the news and comments editor of
the DrugSense Weekly http://www.drugsense.org/current.htm Dr. O'Connell's
latest writing is a history of DrugSense and the Media Awareness Project
which is at http://www.drugsense.org/history.htm

Dean Becker

Welcome to the first NY Times Special Panel on Drug Reform.

At the top of the hour, from 8PM EDT until 9 PM EDT we ask that you allow
these screens to be used only by the panel participants. A representative
of the NY Times will monitor this forum during this time for any that would
disrupt the panel. The panelists will review and make use of a select few
questions from those that have been posted beforehand. They will also open
the screens and take additional questions from 9 to 9:30 PM as well. Thank
you for your participation, please enjoy!

Panelists, we thank you for joining together with us here in the name of
drug reform

Joe McNamara

I don't believe the government is ever justified in arresting and jailing
any person merely because they have a certain chemical in their blood
stream. The Harrison Act of 1914, and The Marijuana Tax Act of 1937
criminalized drugs, turning a medical and societal problem into a
horrendous crime problem and led politicians to declare a "war" on drugs
that can never be won. The only solution is to stop using criminal laws for
drug Prohibition. We now must counter every effort by demagogues to equate
drug use with terrorism and to further demonize those who use certain other
chemicals instead of the legal and lethal ones alcohol and tobacco.

Joe McNamara

I recently wrote an op-ed saying that if the federal government had been
fighting the right war - the one against terrorists who wish to destroy
freedom in the U.S. - instead of the drug war, Sept 11 could have been
prevented. In its last budget(pre 9/11) the FBI asked for only 8 additional
agents to work on terrorism. Yet DEA agents have been increased by 26%
during the last couple of years. result: many more drug arrests and
inmates, more drugs than ever in U.S., cheaper, and more potent.

Joe McNamara

I admire those with the courage to compare their drug use with the use of
alcohol etc. but they unfortunately will be persecuted.

Joe McNamara

The seizure of money by government perverts law enforcement and not
infrequently prosecutors and cops are more motivated to obtain these funds
for their agencies than they are to lessen drug use which they can't do in
any event.

Joe McNamara

Politicians will not pass sunset laws for drugs. Overwhelmingly they want
to be seen as on the side of the angels against evil. We must try to get
the media to objectively report instead of printing what the feds provide
them. Only when the politicians see that Propositions 15 and 36 can mean
votes for them or against them if they support federal obstruction of what
local people have voted for, will laws change.

Joe McNamara

Networks will run anything for money as we found out when Gen. McCaffrey
secretly paid them for "politically correct" anti-drug segments. But we
need letters to the editor and op-eds and letters to elected officials much
more than advertising.

Tom O'Connell

I have learned never to try to anticipate how the US gov't will move
against medical use of cannabis; so I don't know if the US Attorney will
seek indictments. If I had to guess, I'd say no; but I remain very interested.

Kevin Zeese

burnzred wrote: My question to the panel... Do you all see the value in
supporting Libertarian Party candidates in your respective communities?

With more Libertarians in office the job of restoring our basic liberties
would be so much easier. Think globally, act locally. I wish the LP were a
more effective political organization but it can't seem to get anyone
elected - with some minimal exceptions. The reality is we are a two-party
system. By putting drug policy reform in the LP we marginalize the issue by
being part of a marginal party. While I have supported some LP candidates
generally I tend to work in a more mainstream way. I'd like to see serious
LPers take over the Republican Party.

Kevin Zeese

trippin98181925 wrote Question for panelist: I would like to direct this
question to Kevin. Kevin, I am deeply bothered by the lack of mainstream
media to pick up on all the great advancements being made around the world
concerning marijuana. Do you have an answer that would possibly explain the
lack of attention that mainstream media is exhibiting? It appears to me
that freedom of press is losing its freedom just as citizens are losing
their freedom of choice.

Getting into the mainstream media takes constant effort. At Common Sense
our leadership - Robert Field (co-chairman and co-founder), Mike Gray
(Chairman), Doug McVay (Research Director) and I spend a lot of our time
and resources on an advertising campaign. You can view the entire campaign
at http://www.csdp.org/ads . We've done several ads on Holland, Great
Britain and Switzerland. In addition our Drug War Facts booklet has a
section on International developments (see http://www.drugwarfacts.org )
and our main web site http://www.csdp.org has several articles on
international reform progress.

Unfortunately, many people in the US do not think we can learn from abroad.
The reality is many reforms instituted outside of the US could be very
effective here - we are not that different from people outside of the US -
our human bodies all work the same, we have the same DNA and we react to
drugs very similarly. We need to open our eyes so we can see!

Kevin Zeese

dean_becker wrote - Questions to the Panel: 1. Medical Marijuana is now
legal in Canada and the Netherlands and Doctors in the UK and Jamaica have
determined that cannabis should be made available for certain types of
patients. Will this have any effect on the US federal policy toward
cannabis and if so would you hazard a guess at when or how that might occur?

However, change does not only come from the bottom. Opinion leaders at the
grass roots (known as grass tops) and at the national level are very
important. They need to be educated so that when the public shows their
will against the drug war they have enough information to make the right
choices.

Kevin

More on demonstrations. I urge people to contact the November Coalition,
http://www.november.org/ They are organizing vigils around the US. Could
you imagine what it would be like if every federal courthouse had an
anti-drug war picket line that judges, prosecutors, jurors and defense
lawyers had to cross. It is possible, it is doable. Get active with
November Coalition and make it happen.

Celaya Say no to the draft by ending the war on drugs. Great point Kevin!
It should be passed along to SSDP. [ http://www.ssdp.org/ ] It seems they
need more ammo to rouse a critical mass of student support like we had
during the Vietnam War.

Tom O'Connell

One of the key elements in the nation's formal rejection of an obviously
failed policy of alcohol prohibition back in '33 was the Great Depression;
I have long thought it would take a similar catastrophe to force the nation
to re-examine its ludicrous drug policy; I see our chilling confrontation
with international terror as just such a catastrophe.

Kay Lee

We've locked an army up in prison over this drug war. Whether you believe
in war or not, the reality is that's where they've taken us, probably for a
long time to come. There's a powerful fighting force that could be utilized
along with law enforcement sitting there behind the walls.

Joe McNamara

The most important thing people against the drug war can do is to write to
the media to protest biased coverage especially any attempt to equate drug
use with a lack of patriotism or terrorism. Letters to elected officials
are also really important. Remind them that Prop 215 in CA. got 1/2 million
more votes than Dole and 1/4 million more than Clinton in that year's
election and that it is an outrage that the federal government is
attempting to obstruct the will of the voters in CA.

Kevin Zeese

To add to Joe's point on General McCaffrey, the Speaker of the House Dennis
Hastert has appointed a task force on drugs. They are looking at the link
between the drug war and terrorism in an effort to escalate the drug war.
The chairman of this commission is Bob Barr of Georgia who just got the DEA
to act against the LA dispensary.

They need to realize that the reason terrorists profit from the drug trade
is because of their policies. More of the same will just mean more profit
for terrorists. Terrorists don't profit from alcohol, caffeine or tobacco,
from Ritalin, Prozac or Viagra. Why -- not because they are not drugs but
because they are controlled through regulation and restriction and not
through prohibition. End prohibition and you end the terrorist profits.

Those that advocate prohibition when the facts are so obvious should be
held up to ridicule and shown to be aiding and abetting the enemy!

Kevin Zeese

Once again to add to Joe's point, if you are not already signed up for the
weekly MAP focus alert do it today. A coordinated effort to influence the
media is needed and is occurring. Go to http://www.drugsense.org/alerts.htm
and sign up for the weekly focus alert. In a half an hour you can be part
of thousands of activists working together to make a difference in the media.

Kay Lee

Anyone from Florida here, we could sure use you in the streets in this
harsh state. I work on the prison situation that all the drug war offenders
are being sent into. It works both ways: The drug war mass incarcerates
people, the mass incarceration creates the warehousing situation we are in,
and the warehousing when you don't have the funds or the concern to take
care of them, breeds viscous problems like disease, contempt for authority,
Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome, anger - problems coming out the back door
where nobody's watching. This is going to be a major cost and burden to
society someday.

Tom O'Connell

In terms of what an examination of the antecedents of 9/11 will show: it's
clear that we used Pakistani military intelligence (ISI) to help recruit
and create the Taliban to rule Afghanistan in the early Nineties; whether
we were bamboozled or simply lost control of the process doesn't matter too
much; there is no question that the road to 9/11 was paved by US foreign
(and drug) policy mistakes and CIA incompetence.

Not to mention the negative impact a robust international market for heroin
on the social fabric and economies of both Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Joe McNamara

It is extremely important not to attack the police during this period of
terrorism even while we criticize the drug war. We all know that there are
some bad cops but remember the pictures of the ones running into the world
Trade Center who didn't come out. The cops didn't declare the drug war and
many of them are against it but under pressure from their bosses and
politicians to make arrests. It is important to keep getting cops to
criticize the drug war and would be counterproductive to denounce all cops.

Richard1028C

I agree completely, Joe. I think the rank and file has the best of
intentions, despite the very thorough brainwashing they receive in training
and during the duty day.

However, it does seem that the most vicious defenders of prohibition seem
to be those in the enforcement business.

Kevin Zeese

Police have been caught in the cross fire of the drug war for over three
decades. They have done their job -- enforced the laws -- as a result they
have been corrupted and viewed as the enemy in many communities. No doubt
many police deserve to be viewed as the enemy but most do not and most
realize the drug laws don't work. We need to encourage police officers and
chiefs to tell the truth -- they know it -- the drug war has not worked,
cannot work and will never work -- they are not the right tool to deal with
what is primarily a health and social policy. They need to be taken out of
the crossfire and directed to work on solving half the murders in this
country that go unsolved each year.

Kevin Zeese

Actually the most aggressive defenders of the current system are often the
drug treatment industry -- and it is an industry. It has come to be
addicted to coerced clients -- forced into treatment that many do not need.
They also happen to see the worst cases -- people have abused drugs and
many of the treatment providers have their own addiction history. As a
result of their experience they mistakenly think that most people who use
drugs become addicts, when in fact most are mere occasional users who
support their families, hold down a job, pay their mortgage and pay their
taxes. The treatment industry needs to break their addiction to coerced
clients.

Tom O'Connell

To return to the issue of medical use; the implacable hostility of the feds
to that idea will probably be further tested in Northern California in the
near future. There are several distribution centers operating with the
blessing and support of local law enforcement in the Bay Area. It seems
like the bust in LA was to test the waters. One aspect which has saddened
me personally was that the LAT essentially censored news of the bust. I had
hoped nearly five years of MAP activity would have prevented such
complicity with the WoD...

Kay Lee

Counterproductive for sure Mr. McNamara. Dr. Korn, an expert in prisons and
their reform, says I should always keep in mind when talking to and about
cops and guards, "Don't antagonize the opposition, Recruit them." Hey, Bob
Barr is the guy from Georgia that wrote that terrible one page bill
suggesting we amputate, not incarcerate for drug "crimes". His office said
it was a just a joke, I said what a waste of taxpayer's money and anyway,
what if they would have just jokingly voted it into law?

Kevin Zeese

Kay Lee - Your idea is good, but I perceive that the majority of those
arrested for marijuana are not politically in tune to the Reform movement
and so, would probably not be approachable until they have been arrested.

I think a few well-publicized cases like this would raise awareness
tremendously and cause a snow-ball effect that would also create an
opportunity for your training proposal

Kevin Zeese

Re appeasement -- freedom is never given it must be earned, fought for,
battled for -- if we are complacent we will not get freedom back.

Dean Becker

Catherine Fitts, writing for NarcoNews has outlined a scenario by which
most corporations are now owned, pretty much lock, stock and barrel by the
drug lords. Do you lend much credence to her summation?

Tom O'Connell

Dean asked about the series by Catherine Fitts in Narconews.com So far,
I've only been able to skim it, but I'm very excited because she has taken
the analysis beyond the obvious. I'm looking forward to studying it in
detail. I think it could be a major breakthrough...

Joe McNamara

This is my last message of the evening: BEWARE OF DRUG COURTS AND COERCED
ABSTINENCE! Under the appearance of being benign, drug courts take away our
most precious right - the presumption of innocence. Drug courts jail people
merely because they have a certain chemical in their blood. Judges instead
of impartially protecting our rights to due process have been brainwashed
into believing that the presence of certain chemicals in the blood leads a
person to commit assault, burglary, murder or other crimes. No responsible
scientist can support that falsehood but under drug courts there is no need
to prove it.

Zooneedles

In real life discussions I've had people ask me why I would want to
participate in a "grand experiment such as legalization"? I point out of
course that the "grand experiment" was actually the criminalization of drug
use occurring over the last 87 years, particularly the last 32 years. We
need people to realize what actually is the "grand experiment" and how
miserably it has failed.

And yeah, we need to be honest about ourselves. Yes, I smoke cannabis.

Dean Becker

What can I say folks, except the transcript of this special panel will look
real good on your senator's desk. The transcript should be available for
distribution tomorrow.

Thanks to all the panelists, to the visitors and regulars of the forum as
well I will have to twist the Judge's arm and get him back to these screens
real soon. ; ) We welcome any of the panelists to hang around for a bit if
they are able. Thank You!

Kevin Zeese

I agree with Joe on drug courts. They can be very dangerous. Visit
http://www.drugwarfacts.org and view the pages on drug courts. You will see
that Joe is right -- they are a wolf in sheep's clothing. They are for
people who recognize the drug war is not working and is harshly unjust but
are afraid to say so and therefore make a half step that is actually often
a backward step.

Kay Lee

(email addendum) "Our hope for non-violent change lies in the practices and
policies of Dr. King. Learn about it, talk about it, find out how all the
issues hang together. Marijuana prohibition, drug war, prisons... its all
one issue that ties together.

It's really hard for me.. I work on prison issues. Marijuana and Drug War
people sometimes have a hard time understanding why they should be
interested in seeing what's inside the walls. Gary Brooks Waid, author of
Smuggler's Tales From Jails ( http://www.angelfire.com/la/kaylee/tales.html
) is a federal prisoner, doing hard time in a Florida state prison. He's
been put in the hole four times with murderers for writing letters to the
media.

My God, I have a prisoner right now, laying in a facility in Arizona... a
marijuana patient who is quadriplegic doing five years. I already
explained that the drug war has crowded the prisons and with their entry
into the system, the prisoners all eat less, wear less, get less medical
treatment. What do you think that does to Ned? His mother cries because
after only one year in prison, he has bed sores all over him. She doesn't
think he'll live to finish his sentence. What ever is going on in prison,
is happening to the most peaceful of prisoners too.

These are big reasons why we are all tied together. I need your help as
badly as you need mine. It is all one issue! One big bad policy!
Prohibition and all it's offspring is an evil thing!

It was good to be here. Keep on keeping on and UNIFY. "

Thank you all so much for the opportunity to get a little more education.

Looking Forward, Kay Lee

Kevin Zeese

So long all. If anyone wants to contact me to learn how to get more active
they can reach me at zeese@csdp.org Thanks Dean for organizing this.

Zooneedles

Thanks for showing up, everyone.

Donald Way

Thanks everyone, this has been a real treat.

Trippin98181925

Thank You Panelists you're an inspiration. Good night

Keystonekabes

Yes good job Dean. I think the DW is one step closer to its demise because
of your efforts. Thank You.

Donald Way

Kate, thanks for riding shotgun on this whole deal... And Dean, you be the
man! The best guest forum yet, easily.

Richard Lake I can hardly wait for the transcript, Dean! You folks rock!

Tom O'Connell

Thanks to Dean for organizing this panel; I would also add my cautions to
what Joe said about coerced treatment; the good news is that the public is
finally awakening to the idea that incarceration has been a terrible
mistake; sadly it has bought the completely unproven idea that the "answer"
is "demand reduction" brought about by "treatment."

The only reasonable conclusion is that a legal (regulated) market for drugs
is the best answer-- as it is for everything else sold in our society.

I'm afraid we're a long way from the degree of understanding that is
required to change our lunatic policy into a more positive direction; but I
think the war on terrorism promises to shake things up in ways that will
help discredit the errors of the past.