TRANSCRIPT: SCOTT IMLER'S VISIT TO THE NYTIMES DRUG POLICY FORUM

Scott Imler

Ground Zero: West Hollywood

It is with deep sadness that I announce the suspension of all cultivation
and disbursement activities by the LACRC until such time as the legal
issues surrounding last week's raid by federal agents can be resolved.

The impact here in Los Angeles County has been devastating already as
patients deplete personal supplies and begin to search for new sources.
Already members are reporting difficulty eating, sleeping, and keeping
their meds down and weight up. Many have come and left in tears over the
past week unsure what they'll do next. We're doing our best to network some
regional and neighborhood support groups, but the task is daunting without
membership lists and other club resources seized in the raid.

As much as the Board and Staff would like to continue to provide services,
and even if we could afford to, we are not prepared to distribute non-CoOp
products that we cannot vouch for the safety of. Not only is it a
disservice to our members, it is contrary to the understanding we have with
doctors, law enforcement, and public officials who have worked with us and
supported us.

Nor will we allow the government to make liars out of us, by sneaking
around in the shadows doing one thing while pretending that we aren't.
We've come too far for that.

We always believed that if we did a good job, told the truth, and acted
responsibly that the federal government might do the same. While we were
wrong about the government, and our good-faith efforts to be forthcoming
are now being used to mount a criminal case against us, we have no regrets
about the transparency and integrity of our program or the painstaking
efforts undertaken to insure them.

After five years of safe and reliable access to medical marijuana, the
closure of the LACRC CoOp Dispensary is, as Sheriff's Captain Lynda Castro
said, "a difficult pill to swallow." But if anyone has experience
swallowing difficult pills and surviving, and coming back stronger than
ever, the members of the LACRC do. Please know that we will do everything
legally and politically possible to resolve this crisis.

We appreciate all the support people have shown us over the last two weeks
and I look forward to answering any questions folks have on the NY Times
Forum this evening,

Grace and Peace, Scott Imler

- -- Los Angeles Cannabis Resource Center

Dean Becker

Hi Scott, Welcome! Please tell us about the day when the DEA busted the LACRC.

Scott Imler

The DEA raided the Center at 5PM on October 25th. The spent six hours and
took everything. Plants, computers, marijuana, medical records, bank
records, the lot. The local Sheriff refused to help.

BBS News

Hi Scott, Michael Hess from BBSNews

Richard Lake

Welcome, Scott While the flow here may not always seem smooth, it will be
edited into a readable transcript (after careful spell checking to make
everyone look good) and distributed to the world. You have the floor, so to
speak.

Trippin

High Scott Welcome to the forum. I am deeply troubled by the actions of the
prohibitionist to squelch law, it is deplorable. These prohibitionists that
are doing this are unacceptable role models of society.

Jane Marcus

Scott - I'm Jane Marcus, a representative of the Women of Reform Judaism.
In 1999 our national organization unanimously passed a social action
resolution in support of medical marijuana. What action would you encourage
our members to take in response to the DEA's behavior in LA?

Dean Becker

Did they come in with guns drawn, wearing flak jackets, etc.? Were they
violent, abusive and threatening?

Scott Imler

The most difficult thing at this point is safe sources of supply for our
members. Many people are already having health problems as a result of the
raid. the City and the Sheriff are being very helpful and supportive but
what can THEY really do in the final analysis. There is some talk of the
City declaring a state of emergency and adopting a new medical marijuana
ordinance, but it won't help much on the short term. In addition the US
Attorney is threatening to criminally prosecute the principals so we have
our work cut out for us.

BBS News

Mr. Imler, in an article I wrote on October 28th I mentioned at "the
Resource center was supported by both the West Hollywood City Council and
the Los Angeles Sheriffs Department." Can you tell me if any other
officials have stepped forward and has the state attorney general contacted
you to let you know of support?

Scott Imler

Hi Michael,

Trippin

Scott Have they told you, yet, what they want all that personal information
for? What is their real motive for violating the rights of the people?

Do they want everyone's personal information maybe just to have it like for
a register or a hit list? Do they want all this data because of secret
prompting from industry to find out what kind of money they can make. If
that's what they want then they should have come to you and asked that you
share data pertinent to industry inquires instead of using forced
forfeiture to obtain unlimited information.

It really makes my head spin when I try to figure out how they think they
can justify their actions. What's the real story here?

Richard Lake

Scott, the following message was sent a couple of days ago to the leaders
of over 50 drug policy reform groups in the U.S. by Eric Sterling, who was
a recent guest here in the NYT forum. His concerns appear valid to me. Any
comments, Scott? What can we do about this broad-based attack from
Washington on medical cannabis???

Eric's note follows: Dear Colleagues: I have been surprised that I have not
heard of any organized movement-wide response to the raid on the L.A.
Cannabis Club.

No medical marijuana organization has, to my knowledge, organized a joint
letter of protest to the DEA Administrator and the Attorney General.

To my knowledge, there has been no effort to organize a press conference of
protest in Washington, at the National Press Club or on Capitol Hill
involving any of the medical/public health organizations that support
medical use of marijuana.

To my knowledge, there has been no effort to organize a group letter from
Members of Congress expressing concern, if not outrage, at the raid.

To my knowledge there has been no national campaign to solicit signatures
to a petition expressing indignation at the raid.

To my knowledge, there has been no effort to organize a picket or march of
protest at the Department of Justice or the DEA Headquarters.

I am willing to participate, but we are not a lead organization on this.

Eric

Scott Imler

Our elected officials in this area all either attended or sent statements
of support our VIGIL/PROTEST last night. They include: Congressman Henry
Waxman, State Assembly members Paul Koretz and Jackie Goldberg, state
Senator Sheil Kuehl, Bishop Mary Anne Swenson from the CAL-Pac Regional
Conference of the United Methodist Church, Lyn Nofzinger (former Reagan
Press Secretary), Sheriff's Captain Lynda Castro attended and spoke also as
did three members of the West Hollywood City Council. I have not heard
anything from the State Attorney General.

BBS News

Mr. Imler, can you talk about the ruling that the patient records that were
seized are to be viewed by the judge only, or can you offer some
clarification about what will actually happen with those records while they
are under seizure?

Scott Imler

Personal Information in the medical files is certainly a target of the DEA.
LA Justice spokesman Mrozeck said they don't consider LACRC files to be
"medical files" since we are not a hospital. In similar situations under
state law the files would be sealed. They were in the Fry case in Cool , CA
but she is a physician.

Scott Imler

I presume the files are being reviewed by Justice officials. We will
probably seek to have them sealed. In the Fry case the Judge accepted the
government's argument that the Supreme Court case ruled out ANY medical
marijuana use under federal law. In so doing he told the government that
since there was no medical use there was no distinction to be derived from
reviewing the files. So the government kind of won by losing--at least that
round. The files issue in our case cuts both ways. While we are concerned
about confidentiality, the files also prove that we weren't doing anything
except what we said we were doing. Each member signed an informed consent
upon joining which acknowledged the possibility that these events would
occur and agreed that their file could be used to verify their qualified
status (under state law) and in defense of LACRC operations. But in light
of the Fry ruling--their usefulness in defense may be moot.

BBS News

Mr. Imler, do you have any reaction to the news that Attorney General
Ashcroft has decided to use the Supreme Court ruling he is using against
you to also go after Oregon's assisted suicide law? Do you think he may be
trying to close a loophole in US drug policy thinking that if you allow
drugs to be used for death with dignity, then that undermines enforcing
laws against the medical use of marijuana?

Scott Imler

I think Ashcroft is trying to be consistent frankly and remove a glaring
contradiction. "It's OK to help people end their suffering with death but
not with marijuana." That's a hard position to defend--not that their
disinclined to defend indefensible positions mind you ;-).

Jane Marcus

Scott and Richard - I guess my question about the action that Women of
Reform Judaism should take is really encompassed in Eric's comments. Is
there any organized action being planned that our members can be part of?

Dean Becker

Scott, do you feel that what has happened to the LACRC has awakened more
Californians? Has it made the average person take note of the abuses of the
DEA? Will it help to bring the majority around in support of medical
marijuana and in the end help bring an end to the abuses of the DEA?

BBS News

Mr. Imler, have you had a chance to talk Dr. Mollie Fry and Dale Schafer
about their similar raid in El Dorado county or if not, what would you say
to them if you had the opportunity?

BBS News

Mr. Imler, going back to "glaring contradictions" in drug policy, how do
you feel about the efforts that have been made to re-schedule marijuana and
what more would you like to see done? Is your concern only medical use of
marijuana or would you like to see recreational use regulated as well?

Scott Imler

I have to agree with Eric and Jane. I have wondered where the outrage is.
Even in those of us here at the LACRC, our flashes of outrage and anger
have been few and far between. We had 300+ people come out last night and
the sense of the group was more of frustrated resignation that the Bush
Administration will get away this and more while all of America is saluting
the flag. You are certainly right that a cohesive response is required, but
I don't know of any at the present time. One of the problems is that the
patients are busy trying to be well enough to do anything and the cannabis
centers at this point are mostly ducking and bracing for the worst. Few if
any are good candidates for a very public crusade of which Eric speaks. I
don't mean to throw water on any ideas ore supportive actions but merely
express the limitations of those most directly affected.

BBS News

I wrote about Mr. Imler and the case in El Dorado county on the 28th and
while I have the chance, I am interested in his take on the whole issue.

Dean Becker

Scott, it is my contention that the solution to the feeling of frustrated
resignation stems from the fact that not enough people are yet standing
together against this outrage. If someone will lead the way, I will be glad
to be a part of a national day of outrage against the DEA.

Scott Imler

My primary concern is about medical access. There are many compelling
arguments for reforms in marijuana policy across the board. To the extent
that the feds don't allow medical access, the arguments for some kind of
general decriminalization have more resonance with patients and their
families. It reminds me a little of the nuclear freeze campaign in the
early 80's. The nuclear freeze proposal was to the peace movement what the
medical marijuana re-scheduling proposal is to the drug policy reform
movement--a very narrow single issue approach--with support a mile wide and
an inch deep. In the case of the nuclear freeze, the cold war and the arms
race disintegrated (at least that's the story) before the nuclear freeze
every became a reality. I often wonder if the war on marijuana won't
disintegrate long before marijuana is ever available in a pharmacy. **I'm
not sure I answered your question**

BBS News

Mr. Imler, the patients there must be besides themselves with this raid
happening, their records being held, and that on top of being shocked by
the events in NY, the Pentagon, Shanksville, PA and further government
advisories to be on "heightened alert". What are they feeling right now?

Richard Lake

Scott, I think what Eric Sterling was asking is where are the various drug
policy reform organizations and what are they doing? Where are the folks
that put all the money into seeing the initiatives passed in the various
states? In my opinion, until congress gives in the job is not finished.
Indeed to go only part way may actually have raised hopes that caused
patients and the buyers groups to take risks. We know that patients are not
in a position to take the lead - they are just trying to survive. I have
seen some indication that some national organizations are starting to get
organized, but much more needs to be done, I think. Yes, 911 and the
actions of the administration are not going to make things easy - but
nobody said this was going to be a cake walk, did they, Scott?

Dean Becker

Was the DEA threatening or abusive to you and the staff?

Scott Imler

We are feeling very torn. We are Americans too and feel the range of
emotions that the country does. We were among the first in our neighborhood
to hang a flag after 9/11. We did so not out of gung ho patriotism but a
shared sense of helplessness at such senseless tragedy. We did so mostly in
solidarity with the fireman here in West Hollywood at Engine Station *3.
They routinely train new recruits here in our building and have helped us
immeasurably with fire safety. When the DEA came-we were stunned-- and
wondering what to do about our flag. Some wanted to take it down. some
leave it up. We compromised and turned it up side down in the tradition of
distress and emergency. No one can understand why, in times like these,
America is attacking its own--the weakest and most vulnerable at that. It
takes a wicked cynicism and heartlessness to do this kind of thing. It
doesn't make me hopeful for our country.

Tjaxon

I often wonder if the war on marijuana won't disintegrate long before
marijuana is ever available in a pharmacy. Scott, I've always thought that
the problems the Feds have created in med/mj usage would disappear with
general legalization. Several medical advocates have indicated to me the
primary reason for sticking to medical issues was that medical laws would
pass first, and with more general support. Do you feel that is a valid
reason for avoiding the recreational issue?

Jane Marcus

The following quote came from a

-- MAP Posted article from today's Christian
Science Monitor. It's one of several they printed from a discussion they
had with Asa Hutchinson: On how to handle marijuana: "Our legislators have
to set the parameters for how we handle harmful products. And they have set
parameters for alcohol and parameters for tobacco and they have set a
different set of parameters for the more harmful drugs that are out there
from marijuana to heroin... We are an enforcement agency. We take the laws
and move on them." Looks like he lays the responsibility directly with
Congress. I say we have to make medical marijuana a "litmus test" issue for
everyone running for re-election in 2002.

Dean Becker

Scott, just as the Taliban is run by right wing religious fundamentalists,
so is the US drug war. I send my condolences for the abuses you and all the
patients are suffering.

Scott Imler

The DEA agents were not abusive or overtly threatening. They were quite
polite. they didn't ransack the place and respected my request to leave my
partner's office alone. I tried to be helpful as possible to insure that
they got what they needed as quickly as possible. The officers were cordial
and quiet. Few if any seemed very happy about the whole experience by the
time they left.

Scott Imler

This interpretation of the SC case is growing in acceptance. "Congress put
it on schedule one after considering its medical use and ONLY Congress can
take it off." It is unclear if the FDA process could even be used to
reschedule (all things being equal) given the decision.

Zooneedles

The DEA officers must cringe every time their supervisors tell them they
have to go out and raid another medical marijuana site. I bet the agents
would like to see the brass fired.

Redeyedllama

"Few if any seemed very happy about the whole experience by the time they
left." think you could expand on this a little?? did it seem as if they had
not wanted to perform on the warrant or just in what way did they show
distress... it would be refreshing to know that some members of the DEA are
still human, as well as useful in various publications that even current
members of the DEA are against this newest ruling

Scott Imler

As for the DEA agents, some seemed a little confused by their own restraint
during the raid. They obviously aren't used to being nice. They tried not
to engage in "political dialogue" with the eight of us in the room. Only
one slightly caustic exchange between myself and one young buck of an agent
who told me "I'm just doing my job." I told him that "the officers at the
Nuremberg trials said the same thing." They remained very careful as they
combed through documents and searched my bedroom. Most of them stopped at
one point or another to read framed news articles which hang on the
walls-most with pictures of me and plants. They were particularly
interested in the Baca Goes Green article from the LA Weekly (the County
Sheriff). By the end they were all pretty tired I think. Tony Zavacky, the
lead agent on the scent (and the chief investigator in Todd and Peter's
case presented me with a property list. and said "See ya, we'll be back."
They all left, with much less verve than they arrived with, probably like
most people who load moving vans for a living. I do not believe the 30 +
agents were of one mind upon arrival or departure, but a few minds did
change along the way from the feel of it.

Dean Becker

The greatest evil of drug prohibition is the collusion of our government.
Scott, are there certain things you would like to tell us or any government
agency that might read this transcript at a later date?

Scott Imler

Yes. I'd like people to know that we tried our best to do a good job, tell
the truth and be responsible. Despite the fact that the government didn't
reciprocate, we have no regrets about our program and our efforts. We
remain grateful that we all found each other in the midst of this storm and
we are proud of what we accomplished together as a community. We are
extremely appreciative of the support of our local officials and law
enforcement. They believe in us when few others did. It made us to believe
in ourselves. And that, not even the feds can take away. Grace and Peace to
you all, Scott Imler

BBSnews

My heart goes out to all of you who get put through this ordeal by the
government for no very apparent reason.

Trippin

...Right On Scott...! Thanks for being here. You have plenty of support out
there and we need to hear from them all. Best of luck!

Dean Becker

Thank you Scott, I know this has not been a very pleasant experience and we
all appreciate you taking the time to visit with us. Working together, we
can bring reason back to our society.


-- MAP Posted-by: Richard Lake