TRANSCRIPT: CATHERINE AUSTIN FITTS'S VISIT TO THE NYT DRUG POLICY FORUM

Dean Becker What a great day here on the NY Times Drug Policy Forum!

Ladies and gentlemen, the author of "Narco Dollars For Dummies"..

Ms. Catherine Austin Fitts!

Catherine Austin Fitts Good evening, Dean. Good evening all.

Thanks for having me on the forum. And thanks for arranging to have "the
Myth of the Rule of Law" article posted.

There is one quote I wanted to use tonight and some of the links I might
need, so I will post them now below.

I checked in for your discussion with Governor Johnson. Pretty cool.

How would you like to begin?

Catherine Austin Fitts Solari

One might better think of ours as a dual political system. First, there is
the symbolic political system centered around electoral and representative
activities including party conflicts, voter turnout, political
personalities, public pronouncements, official role playing and certain
ambiguous presentations of some public issues which bestir Presidents,
governors, mayors and their respective legislatures. Then there is the
substantive political system, involving multi-billion dollar contracts, tax
write-off's, protections, rebates, grants, loss compensations, subsidies,
leases, giveaways and the whole vast process of budgeting, legislating,
advising, regulating, protecting and servicing major producer interest, now
bending or ignoring the law on behalf of the powerful, now applying it with
full punitive vigor against heretics and "troublemakers" The symbolic
system is highly visible, taught in schools, dissected by academicians,
gossiped about by newsmen. The substantive system is seldom heard of or
accounted for. -- Michael Parenti

For articles by Catherine Austin Fitts: Narco Dollars for Dummies:
http://www.narconews.com/narcodollars1.html
http://www.narconews.com/narcodollars2.html and
http://www.narconews.com/narcodollars3.html

The Myth of the Rule of Law: The Destruction of Hamilton Securities:
http://www.user1.netcarrier.com/~aahpat/q301.pdf

Cui Bono: Building a Map to Solve the Crime:
http://www.narconews.com/cuibono.html

A Collection of Essays and Articles by Fitts:
http://www.solari.com/gideon/articles/index.html

Articles about Fitts and Federal Financial Fraud/Money Laundering:
http://www.solari.com/media/articles%20on%20gideon.htm

Trippin To Catherine

I would like to tell you that I have read many of your articles, news
material and other related literature and I support your views and
disclosures and consider your information to be vital to the reform
movement and I applaud you for your efforts. I would like to Thank You for
taking the time to visit the drug sense chat room the other night and Thank
You now for your visit to the NYT drug policy forum.

Catherine Austin Fitts trippin, thanks for you kind words.

Dean Becker Catherine, we need to share this data you present with
mainstream America. Already there exists great dis-satisfaction with our
country's drug policy. By sharing this additional information you are
providing we can surely turn the tide on this ancient drug war.

Can you think of ways the everyday folks on this forum can help disseminate
this information to the general public?

Catherine Austin Fitts There are numerous ways....

Forward the links. Print out copies for folks who are not on the internet.
Tell people the story who don't have time to read the article. Repost the
articles on other sites. We have permission from Al as long as we credit
Narco News. One website has posted a recorded version of Narco Dollars for
Dummies for folks who prefer to listen.

I guess the question for everyone here is what is the most energizing way
for you?

Dean Becker Catherine, you are right of course. We can all do something if
we will but try. I will carry your links on my site as well, will build the
links this weekend. Where is the recorded version? I will include that as
well.

Catherine Austin Fitts Dean, the recorded version is at:
www.activeingredients.org

[ http://www.activeingredients.org/narcodollars.mp3 ]

Aahpat Hi Catherine;

Thank you so much for coming by today and this evening. Your story reads
like a 'plausible deniability' meat grinder. But it is our .gov at work. I
wish they would come to see the same economic potential of ending
prohibition that they today see in maintaining it.

Have you ever talked with the congress about your observations and
experiences?

Catherine Austin Fitts aahpat, thanks again for posting the other article.

I have spoken with a few people in Congress. My family and friends sent
many letters and I worked with my Congressman and my Senators to try to get
my last company paid the money that we are owed for work done for the
government. My family and friends were shocked and amazed at the brush off
they got.

In one of the last meetings I had, the senior staff of the then Chair of
the Senate Appropriations HUD committee asked me what I thought was going
on at HUD. I was trying to be deferential and asked him what he thought. He
said "HUD is being run as a criminal enterprise."

On the next appropriations round, that office as well as my Congressman and
Senators voted for a $1.7 billion increase for HUD, did not get me paid,
and one office told me that I needed to stop trying to save the world.

Kind of says it all.

Pelroy Ms. Fitts,

What is your position on the legalization of marijuana?

Catherine Austin Fitts Pelroy, I can't say that I really have a policy on
much of anything. If left to my own devices, I would legalize all drugs and
let the rules and enforcement of them relate to drugs be policed by
families and communities, not government. I will let a lot of people out of
prison immediately, etc. so I am assuming there would be some
retroactivity. I also believe there is merit to laws which prevent coercive
use of drugs with others, etc.

I believe that government should be as small as possible and that it should
be as decentralized as possible.

At the same time, I believe that the best government policies are those
that -- on as decentralized a basis as possible -- reflect what people in a
democratic process believe in and are willing to take responsibility and be
held accountable to do. That means I respect others right to chose a
different policy than my own. I am willing to live with the consensus view.

For such a democratic process to occur, we need honest media and low cost
disclosure. That has not happened regarding "how the money works" on this
and every other policy in America.

My primary interest is in helping implement the sustained changes we need
for this type of honest media and illumination to occur in a way that is
very energizing for democracy, free markets and wealth creation in an
economy that makes money from helping people be successful.

Whew, that was a little long winded. Sorry.

Dean Becker It's the same as it always was. Bread and Circus.

As long as people can play bingo on Friday or go fishing on Sunday, they
think they are free.

Perhaps this failing economy will help expedite the average citizen's
realization that all is not well.

Do you see a difference, are people becoming more cognizant of the facts
about the drug war, are they starting to realize the economic ruin and the
absurdity of drug prohibition?

Aahpat That's frustrating.

Have you tried newspaper ads in your congressional district and state
during campaign season? Or take up a party banner?

I am personally not into parties but I would think the Libertarians would
love to make noise for you with you as a candidate.

We would have to talk some more but I would like you for your honesty and
determination as an Independent candidate. Next year is an off year for
congress elections easy to slip the right person into the fray. What state
are you in? We certainly need more assertive politicos here in PA.

Catherine Austin Fitts ahhpat, I am working to seed a network of
neighborhood knowledge managers called solaris. A solari is a for profit
community databank that is controlled locally that circulates neighborhood
financial statements and tracks the Solari Index in that area.

I believe that starting a solari is the first step to creating a political
process in which the citizens can have the same "insider information" as
the current people who control and subvert the political process.

Meantime, I live in Tennessee and come to Philadelphia once a month for a
board meeting.

Trippin Catherine

I am very interested in how the money is working in our society from this
prohibition.

What I am really interested in is uncovering who or what agencies within
government are behind this mess that they have created.

When taking a look at the circumstances behind this injustice, what I would
really like to know is, can you identify the course that all the missing
money is taking through the channels of the government, I am looking for
accountability to place on someone or some department or agency.

any thoughts on that?

Donald Way Hi Catherine,

Thanks for being here.

Your writing is, to say the least, sobering. If you are even half right
then I am finding it very difficult to understand just what we can do about
it.

What is your assessment of other western countries? Does the fact that they
are willing to embrace reform indicate that the pervasive corruption you
speak of has yet to take hold there?

Rather than trying to work for change from within a system that may be
beyond the point of no return, would a more effective strategy for
reformers be to make these other countries their new home? That instead of
working here in America and making the drug economy stronger it would be
better to work at growing an economy that is not so horribly corrupted?

Aschwa Do you think we have a better chance to persuade the federal
government to end marijuana prohibition, or are we better off trying to get
one state to end it, thus setting up a federalism clash as the federal gov.
must decide whether it will enforce its prohibitive laws there? I think the
latter is more likely to happen, and, once one state legalized (and TAXED)
marijuana, other states would say, why are we spending money enforcing
these laws, when we could be making money (that could be used for better
public schools and universities, health care . . .) by repealing them?

Catherine Austin Fitts aschwa, I am not sure what the best strategy is. The
problem is global. Our financial system is now global, the federal and
state policies are controlled by global players. Our addiction to organized
crime profits is local, federal and global. Narcotics profits and the
network of covert operations they fund are part of that global system. The
local, state and federal financial ADDICTION needs to be illuminated, and
then state by state action that is possible because the global powers that
be have to back off. Otherwise, their ability to use dirty tricks to keep
this going is firm and in control.

The power we are up against is not just the rich. The food chain on this
means that many many people in a local economy are dependent on the cash
flows and do not even know it. That is why legal reform may depend on doing
the economic changes that Solari is proposing.

To get off our financial addiction to drugs, we are going to have to create
an offsetting increase in productivity and wealth fast....and do so in a
way that prevents too much hiccupping of the economy.

That argues for local and state action. This is a very place by place thing.

Drug reform is about reforming our addiction to drug profits and
negotiating a truce with accumulated drug capital that deals with the real
deal of how power and money really work in this country. Many folks are not
apathetic--just scared.

That is why I believe that it is essential to do the solaris.

Aahpat aschwa

That could be fun. Which state do you think would be best.

Aschwa Maybe New Mexico, or some state with a very small population, like
Alaska. But, if California or New York did it, the whole thing would end
the day after.

Lenzapleaps "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within
the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." ~~ Claire Wolfe

Aahpat Catherine;

Do you have a web page for the data bank? Making public information both
viable and accessible as a product is democracy in motion.

I'm in Allentown. If you are ever speaking in the area let me know. I get
into Philly about as much as you do.

Catherine Austin Fitts ahhpat, all the software tools and databases on the
community databank were a lot of what the Department of Justice destroyed
when they seized our offices.

There is a small amount up at www.solari.com under the Solari and Solari
Trust section.

I am starting a solari here in Hickory Valley and am about to start
publishing a local newspaper that will focus entirely on how the money
works locally, building towards complete neighborhood financial statements
over time. We will have a special subscription for others who want to copy
cat in their area that will include instructions on how to find the same
information in your place. By law there is a lot that you have the right to
see. Problem is it takes forever if you do not know how to get it and then
put it all together the way the large corporations can and do.

This knowledge is their chief competitive edge. It is what they use to rig
politics and markets. And make the narcotics trafficking and the War on
Drugs keep going.

Aahpat Timely is also an issue with even public information. Sometimes it
has a very short shelf life and the antagonists use that fact to the minute
if they can. If the material takes long to access and contracts are having
hearings the people are blind.

The newspaper outlet is real interesting. Much of this stuff used to go out
to small market specific specialty papers that would cover their interest
to the last filing.

I'll check out the link thanks.

Redeyedllama Aschwa the recent Supreme court ruling concerning medical
marijuana would rule that plan of action out the DEA has already shown
their willingness to arrest and confiscate without any local support in
California in their raids over many a medical cannabis co-op

Dean Becker The Solari Institute for Applied Democracy.

Please alert us as the advances take place. I will post carry links to this
data as well.

I would like to learn more about your approach. My years of pushing numbers
around may yet come in handy again.

Brian Knop Are you going ahead with your newsletter , Catherine?

Jerryt9 By law there is a lot that you have the right to see

By law there used to be a lot that we used to have the right to do.

Our rights seem to slip away ashcroftally.

Haste is recommended.

Jerryt9 Perhaps we can fill the interlude with this: donaldway,

Your comment brought up the idea of the relationship of the A.M.A. to the
lawmakers.

HERE is an early example of what the U.S. Congress thinks of the American
Medical Association.

"... ... The other piece of medical testimony came from a man named Dr.
William C. Woodward. Dr. Woodward was both a lawyer and a doctor and he was
Chief Counsel to the American Medical Association. Dr. Woodward came to
testify at the behest of the American Medical Association saying, and I
quote, "The American Medical Association knows of no evidence that
marihuana is a dangerous drug."

"What's amazing is not whether that's true or not. What's amazing is what
the Congressmen then said to him. Immediately upon his saying, and I quote
again, "The American Medical Association knows of no evidence that
marihuana is a dangerous drug.", one of the Congressmen said, "Doctor, if
you can't say something good about what we are trying to do, why don't you
go home?"

Catherine Austin Fitts I am planning on starting with two monthly editions
for the Real Deal News. One will be local, how the money works in Hickory
Valley. This will come with instructions on how to do the same for your
neighborhood for those interested in copycatting as a way to start a
business, build a job in your neighborhood. I can post a recent prototype
with Dean if you are interested.

The other will be a national edition to help people who want to "vote with
our resources". We vote at the polls every year or two, but we vote
everyday in the marketplace with our time, our attention and our money.
These are the votes that count. Media we watch, people we admire and pay
attention to, purchases, bank deposits, investments, etc.

Dean Becker In that Enron now has the chance to rebound, what can we now
draw from that situation. The sponge has been squeezed dry, the monies
hidden and so now do they start another round if the public does not catch on?

Catherine Austin Fitts I believe Enron may be one of the best opportunities
we have to illuminate some of the financial aspects on the war on drugs,
particularly because Pug Winokur, of the Harvard Corporation and DynCorp
are on the board of Enron, playing the most important role as Chairman of
the Finance Committee. Meantime, Harvard's most significant hedge fund was
the short seller. A Lockheed board member is also on the board, and is an
important player in the War on Drugs and the war on about everything else.

Because of their astonishingly important role in the War on Drugs, if the
drug reform movement can connect the dots politically with the employees
and investors who were harmed, there is real potential.

It pays for us to all understand Pug Winokur, Harvard, and DynCorp's role
in the War on Drugs. Folks need to understand the people who are really
making this stuff happen in the trenches and making money from it.

Jerryt9 Catherine, your radical ideas appear to be "right on the money," so
to speak.

Your ideas represent the first NEW approach to the Drug Policy problem that
I have heard in thirty years. More power to YOU!!!!

Catherine Austin Fitts jerryt9, the demonization of marijuana is the root
of a lot of profit and capital gains.

Remember, the war on drugs has been a very successful policy. It works. It
accomplishes the goals.

The tactics one uses to end a highly successful policy are different than
the ones used to end a failed policy.

The war on drugs has not failed. It has succeeded wildly.

Donald Way Hi Catherine,

I'll try this one more time, rephrasing it a bit.

You just stated that a lot of this corruption is global in context, yet we
have a growing number of nations that are openly pursuing sensible,
realistic drug policies that include allowing for the sale, possession and
use of marijuana, even recreational use.

This suggests to me that the corruption isn't yet truly global. That it is
pretty much centered here in the States.

If, as you say, the corruption in our country is so pervasive, what do you
say to the idea that reformers should consider voting with their residency?
Instead of working to build an economy that is hopelessly addicted to drug
money, work instead in a country where the economy is one that still places
some value on human rights.

Donald Way DynCorp is so over-the-top it'd hardly be believable in a James
Bond flick, to say nothing of real life.

Catherine Austin Fitts donaldway, while I agree there are many cultures
that are currently superior to ours, I was struck as I listened to Kevin
Zeeze the other night talk about how much more advanced several European
countries were. My thought was that the investors controlling the game did
not want it where they lived, but just watch how they behave if their
profits from US financial fraud and organized crime, all dependent on
narcotics flows should dip.

Remember, they determine policy by optimizing their best interests. So what
they want in Geneva or the City of London may be very different than what
they are happy to have happen in the States.

A lot of the history of the US involvement in the global drug trade is a
story of the finest families trying to keep their dividends constant for
British and European investors---this goes back to before the revolutionary
war.

Old and long relationships around the Chinese Opium trade, slave trading etc.

Donald Way Well, if prohibition makes money for them here in the States, I
guess what I don't understand is why that wouldn't be true in these other
countries as well.

As to the second point I raised I am wondering whether a good thing to
pursue is the establishment of a service here in the U.S. that helps people
relocate overseas. I'm admittedly ignorant at this point of what I'm sure
are a great many details, but for some people it may be the best option. I
don't see why political asylum isn't something that can be used to this
end. Thanks for your comments.

Catherine Austin Fitts donaldway, have you seen the RICO suit down in Texas
against DynCorp. A former employee claims that some of the policemen that
DynCorp sent to Kosovo were slave trading ---buying and selling sex slaves.
Another amazing DynCorp story...one of many.

Pug Winokur, Enron board member, is the lead investor in DynCorp. My guess
is that Harvard Corporation set Pug up in his investment firm so they could
have a silent way to be the lead investor in DynCorp.

Pug is also the lead investor in TCBY and a board member in Mrs. Fields
Cookies...two products we can all stop using to vote against the War on Drugs.

Trippin that makes me feel better.

I have never bought either one of those products.

and never will.

Donald Way Catherine,

No, I hadn't, which is odd because we've been pretty good here at following
DynCorp's on-going saga here in this forum.

I read the transcript of your visit to DrugSense and was particularly
struck by the HUD connection, though I already knew they trafficking in the
very drugs they were supposed to be working to eradicate.

I just realize now you may have taken the Bond quote earlier
out-of-context. I meant it as a way of saying I agree with you
wholeheartedly when it comes to these guys. What's amazing is that a lot of
people in Congress think the same thing, and yet, nothing happens to change
the situation. Or maybe it's not so amazing, come to think of it.

Dean Becker Catherine,

I shall delve into the Solari ideas over the next few weeks and be fully
prepared to address these issues more completely on the Indictment of
Prohibition Panel on Jan 7th.

I must admit my mind gets swamped when I begin to analyze and weigh the
issues involved, it is truly heavy stuff.

Perhaps as you go about sharing this with the folks on this site, DrugSense
and elsewhere, we can better develop a plan than breaks all this data down
into bite size chunks thaw can more easily be shared with the general public.

Catherine Austin Fitts Dean:

Hope I have not been too blunt. I know that looking at this from the
business point of view is completely different. Kind of the opposite of
what most folks think.

It moves us into a world where people make a great deal of money from
intentionally harming us.

That is hard to think about.

Scary. My pastor says, "If we can face it, God can fix it."

But is not hard to face it. No one fought it harder than me. I guess I did
only because the feds left me no choice. If it had not been for the "enemy
of the state" experience, I am not sure I would want to face it.

Again, I am very positive about what can be done if we do face it. The
opportunities are immense in building a sustainable economy.

Thanks for letting me join you this evening!

Best, Catherine

Donald Way Hehe, Pug Winokur is a name that makes for a pretty good Google
search.

Only half believed the Ron Brown allegations before.

Donald Way Thanks for coming Catherine! You were great!

Trippin Thanks for stopping by Catherine so far I am batting 0 for four at
getting an answer from you, but, it doesn't bother me,

I'll still be back there somewhere behind you giving you my support.

Thank You for your effort to end this unjustifiable prohibition against
marijuana and I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor.

Groutman A lot to think about thanks so much Catherine.

Dean Becker The greatest evil of drug prohibition is the collusion of our
government.

We shall look forward to your return on Jan. 7th with Judge Gray, Eugene
Oscapella and Nobel Prize Winner Milton Friedman.

Catherine, thanks for fighting your hook-up for so long, thank you for the
wonderful words of instruction and thank you so much for being with us
tonight.