TRANSCRIPT: NORA CALLAHAN'S VISIT TO THE DRUGSENSE CHAT ROOM

DrugSenseBot001:

Nora Callahan -- DrugSense board member -- Executive Director, The November
Coalition http://www.november.org/

Paul:

hello Nora...what is new with the November Coalition

Trippin:

Hi Nora ..welcome to the chat...

Nora Callahan:

New with TNC? We are putting final touches on a petition to ask for
increase in 'good time'

Good time is now a bit under 15% in the federal prison system

We want more!

Good time, that is. Call it... harm reduction for the prisoners.

Richard Lake:

Nora, it has been a long time since we have done this. Remember the chat
that night in the basement of the now burned out farmhouse at the Rainbow Farm?

Paul:

What do you think your chances are of getting it passed?

Nora Callahan:

Yes, Richard, the last time we did this was in 1998 at the farm

Nora Callahan:

What are the chances of early release if we do not try?

What is success?

Nora Callahan:

How many were active in drug law reform before 1997?

MaxStone:

I was

Paul:

I was

Richard Lake:

Is the petition on line yet, Nora?

MaxStone:

in Australia that is

Nora Callahan:

Will be within 2 weeks

JayB:

yo, letters

Fat Freddy:

I was

Nora Callahan:

okay... back in 1997 how much talk was there about the injustice of
imprisonment?

MaxStone:

in Australia a lot more than USA

Paul:

Depends how many people had friends or family inside the system

Nora Callahan:

Australia is a more progressive country... you are fortunate

Richard Lake:

Nora, there are already more hard core activists here, from three countries
now, than were present at the NYT forum. I count 19 including yourself.

Fat Freddy:

A lot more than in 1994 Nora.

Nora Callahan:

Well, in early 1997 - not much...

and yes, each year, people see the injustice

MaxStone:

we been protesting against wakenhut since the day they started building
their slave labour cages

Nora Callahan:

but, we don't ask for release

Micah:

we are coming together here in Canada

Nora Callahan:

yeah, wakenhut is bad news

Nora Callahan:

and Canada is coming together! thank you Canada!

Paul:

because more people are coming to have friends and family inside now than then

Nora Callahan:

yep... more and more victims

breeding their own resistance.... isn't how it often goes?

Micah:

we all know someone harassed

Nora Callahan:

correct

Micah:

or jailed

Paul:

ya ...I worry that now Canada is talking about privatizing prisons as well

derek:

Bush wants 25% increase!

Nora Callahan:

yep - privatization is large concern

Nora Callahan:

yeah - looks like the president would have a lot of things...

Fat Freddy:

Sister Somayah went into the hospital Friday with her sickle cell anemia.
She may be next -- I hope not.

derek:

Nora, remember the training film?

Nora Callahan:

yes, the training film

I sent that to NBC and they never sent them back

they were going to do a documentary on abuse

derek:

it's worse now

Nora Callahan:

abuse? yes, we get letters

calls, the system is too 'burdened'...

Nora Callahan:

it is harder for news and documentary makers to get inside

Paul:

shoot next wakenhut will be asking for government grant in order to build
new prisons

Nora Callahan:

paul - and could get one...

derek:

SLU (special housing units) are big now

Nora Callahan:

one thing though, it gets harder and harder for them to get guards

Paul:

I know Nora...that is what scares me

Nora Callahan:

wonder if people see it like a 'janitor job' of the new millennium?

Paul:

maybe they will just start sending people to Cuba Prison system

Richard Lake:

And prison industries take business away from outside businesses. I do
think that it is important for there to be education and training in
prisons, but not slave labor!

MaxStone:

so Nora how do you think the internet has helped - or hindered- the overall
'protest' movement?

Nora Callahan:

so many sites these days!

derek:

StarBucks uses slave labor

Nora Callahan:

the internet? helped? understatement

immeasurable help!

look how we can communicate

was telling folks about a petition that we will 'launch' soon that asks for
increase in federal good time for who have not been in any trouble in prison

Nora Callahan:

so... now I have a question

of all of you...

question is:

how many signatures of support can we get?

say a guy got 10 years

should we ask for half time?

or go for what there was before mid 80's and that was eligible for release
after 1/3 of their time had been served

Diane Fornbacher:

Will the petition be online, Nora?

Nora Callahan:

yes online and hardcopy to all our prisoner members

Diane Fornbacher:

That sounds great

Paul:

go for 1/3 of the time like before....

Nora Callahan:

yeah.. 1/3

Nora Callahan:

okay - so you'll all sign

Paul:

but plan on getting into some hard core discussions

Nora Callahan:

that is the purpose of the petition

Nora Callahan:

hard core discussion

Paul:

there should be statistics on that somewhere

Diane Fornbacher:

Yay for TNC

Nora Callahan:

more 'lines drawn in the sand'

what stats?

on what? stats on what?

Diane Fornbacher:

I got lots of lines drawn in front of me

and behind, etc

Richard Lake:

I know that Dr. Mikuriya got over a hundred thousand signatures on a
petition between '73 and 76, so over time a lot can be gathered. I helped
him deliver it to the white house on July 4th, 1976. Should be able to get
that many faster now, Nora.

Paul:

will prove that people in general where better off with serving only 1/3

Nora Callahan:

how many Richard?

how many could we get?

MaxStone:

the current number of cyber citizens is less than 10% of global population]

Nora Callahan:

we got 36,000 jjp ones (jubilee justice) in 2000 - 6 months and not too
many folks helped

mostly was just TNC - prisoners and their loved ones

okay how many of 10 online will sign it?

Micah:

i

JayB:

yo

Paul:

6.47 million people inside....5 people for every person..... 30 million

Fat Freddy:

Me

easygoer:

I will

Nora Callahan:

30 million

JayB:

2 of 10

Micah:

every one that reads it

Nora Callahan:

Micah - love, love your optimism

Nora Callahan:

I am optimistic

MaxStone:

less than 1% of cyber citizens will access it, no matter where it is cached

Richard Lake:

Petitions take off slowly, I suspect. I would guess a hundred thousand in a
year. But as more get out there the rate of signatures grows. The longer
'till the turn in date the more signatures.

Paul:

that would be your limitation...how many people can you reach

Diane Fornbacher:

Well, naturally, we'll put it on our email list (DPFTS http://www.dpfts.org
) and it can be forwarded to groups with statement of conscience against
the WOD

MaxStone:

website super saturation

Nora Callahan:

how do we make this petition well known?

I like that Diane

statement of conscience

Paul:

even if everybody online signed it....only 30-40% of people in states is
online...

with probability high that the people that would sign it are the ones offline

Nora Callahan:

oh, those stats, of how many are online

JayB:

can this petition move in synergy with some other coalition element?

derek:

the DEA hemp protest seemed to come together online

MaxStone:

web is used to inform and direct the action of the people in the streets

Richard Lake:

To start with, let me know when it is online and downloadable for printing.
Be sure to get a copy available in .pdf format for good printing.

Nora Callahan:

what if the petition was in the Nation Magazine?

okay - so - we get it online

MaxStone:

it is a communication device

Diane Fornbacher:

Paul, in that case, perhaps TNC can have a printer-friendly version on the
site for demonstrators, college club members, church members, etc...

Nora Callahan:

and re-activate OpenTheCan

www.OpenTheCan.org that is....

Diane Fornbacher:

I like the "nation" mag campaign and of course, the Open The Can Campaign
- --ingenious...

Paul:

good idea... Diane

Nora Callahan:

okay... so it's online, and in magazines

Richard Lake:

That, of course, would help. The mag, that is. I just don't know if it is
the best way to spend money. I trust you are talking to Kevin, Nora.

Paul:

do a mass mailing

Nora Callahan:

not yet, I'm talking to you guys!!!!

Paul:

just a pamphlet to send to every person in the US

Nora Callahan:

if we are gonna chat... then we are gonna come away with some work done

every person in the US

okay... bulk mailings to 'liberal' communities

Paul:

only 300,000,000 people

Nora Callahan:

live interviews!!

Micah:

web conferencing etc

Nora Callahan:

hold that thought Micah

Richard Lake:

Talk to Kevin about magazine ad feedback. If you can afford it fine, but it
costs, for sure. Not sure how effective it is.

Nora Callahan:

Micah...we must go back to this soon

Diane Fornbacher:

Well, I dunno if the mag is the best idea either but it'll certainly get
some very important people's attention, letting them know we're serious.
Sometimes it might not be the best way to get signatures, per se but it
might be good to send a message to the mag's more high profile readers.

Nora Callahan:

and on mag ad we can give feedback as to how many do it

how many times are ads run - when there is little way to measure it?

this is a measuring stick

Fat Freddy:

We can't rely on the News papers.

Paul:

the limits are...presentation and how many people get to see it or hear
about it

Nora Callahan:

but - what if locally, people raised money to put it in their own newspaper?

the statement - one signature line - send this to:

The November Coalition

795 South Cedar

Colville, WA 99114

Richard Lake:

We can probably get High Times, Cannabis Culture and Head to do something,
but the lead time till the item is huge (three to six months on the average)

Nora Callahan:

so... mag - that depends on who wants to pay for it, but don't worry about it

if it is 'right' we'll get it in a mag

Paul:

no ...first thing is to figure out who would sign the petition

Nora Callahan:

so, how many of you have a core group that can raise $150?

a local newspaper ad would be $150

Paul:

then you will target the mags that those type of people read

Nora Callahan:

we'd have PDF downloadable camera ready 'ads' for that purpose, perhaps?

Diane Fornbacher:

Nora, just as important, is trying to get organizations (high profile ones
like Amnesty) to endorse it. You got garner a lot of attention with
endorsements from other orgs too.

kevinblack:

DIANNE!!!! Derek!!! If anyone is interested, I spoke with Jacob Sinks
sister last night and have an update on him...anyone mention Maxim Magazine?

Nora Callahan:

high profile orgs to endorse - very good!

Nora Callahan:

Richard, can we get a printout of this meeting?

Fat Freddy:

Great Idea Nora. I will be doing a few Ads all over as well.

Nora Callahan:

Maxium! good!

Nora Callahan:

organizational endorsements is very important

Paul:

maybe you would put out another type of add for magazines aimed at the
people on the other side...

Nora Callahan:

well....

Jo-D:

Nora...yes transcript will be posted at mapinc by morning

Nora Callahan:

on the other side?

kevinblack:

They're starting to get a circulation as large as Playboy and are VERY
receptive to our issues

Richard Lake:

Nora, you can't go back in this chat before you signed in. Kevin, it will
be posted to MAPNews, archived. Just search on Nora. With a little luck I
hope to have it posted by late tomorrow. Nora, the idea to have some ads,
various sizes, in .pdf formats so we can ask magazines, etc. to do PSAs is
super!

Paul:

such as guards and police and justice type people

Nora Callahan:

hummm.... why not count up those on our side first?

Richard - PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENTS

tremendous idea!

on buses

they give free bus and subway spots to non profits

Micah:

billboards

Diane Fornbacher:

Playboy has always been receptive (no pun intended) but they were the major
funders of HIGH TIMES and NORML when both began...

Nora Callahan:

that is why Diane's idea to get Amnesty Intl / Human Rights Watch /ACLU /
behind it

Nora Callahan:

Playboy gave me my first press!

Diane Fornbacher:

oh ok, I was thinking you meant Playboy is getting receptive, not Maxim,
but now I get it

kevinblack:

lol

Nora Callahan:

my mom proudly proclaimed at the checkout stand - "My daughter is in this
magazine"

Nora Callahan:

lol

Diane Fornbacher:

AHAHAH

Nora Callahan:

my mom is 80

too funny

Nora Callahan:

someone can go pull the few quotes TNC and me are mentioned

Diane Fornbacher:

You should've seen the issue of Penthouse Paul Armentano was in.... His
grandparents almost died when they saw the issue

Nora Callahan:

okay, back to work

Nora Callahan:

Micah

Micah:

yes

Diane Fornbacher:

lol, ok, sorry boss Nora

Nora Callahan:

you had a point i wanted to take further

derek:

Reason and In These Times are good ones too

Nora Callahan:

what had you asked or commented earlier and I said hold that thought

reason mag

rolling stone

Paul:

the trick is to reach those that are quick to sign as cheaply as possible
whilst at the same time working on getting those that normally wouldn't
sign it or wouldn't even think about signing it to sign it

Richard Lake:

There may be some magazines like Glamour that would be most receptive,
also, Nora.

Micah:

to speak on the web web conferencing

Diane Fornbacher:

TIME mag might be good too, didn't they just do an article on hemp?

Paul:

to teach them

Nora Callahan:

broad appeal - yes Paul, we have to have broad appeal

Nora Callahan:

teach, change minds, fence sitters fall our way

kevinblack:

Suff Mag; Spin Mag; Esquire Mag; Details Mag

Nora Callahan:

Time, Newsweek has writer that follows us

kevinblack:

Stuff, even

Diane Fornbacher:

Nora, another idea might be to go back and try all the mags which have
covered TNC and interviewed you.

Nora Callahan:

as does the guardian in england

Paul:

because if you can't change the other side to see as you do...you will not
have any chance even if you sign up a billion sigs

Nora Callahan:

international pressure???

Paul:

go to forums for guards and justice system

Diane Fornbacher:

One thing of which you must make sure is to have eloquent speakers of all
colors. A lot of functions I've attended tend to neglect that aspect,
leaving many feeling ignored and upset

Nora Callahan:

to who? a few speakers.... forums? okay....

tonight we are talking about a direct action

Nora Callahan:

Diane

Nora Callahan:

Richard

Nora Callahan:

Paul

Nora Callahan:

Fat Freddy

Nora Callahan:

who am I leaving out?

Paul:

yes

JayB:

yo

Nora Callahan:

direct action

we are tired of talking conferencing

kevinblack:

amen

Nora Callahan:

dying in prison

being raped

we are tired of going insane

Trippin:

Nora.. we need more politicians on our side

Nora Callahan:

we need more politicians on our side

okay - how do we get them?

with people!

they follow the public

JayB:

the public must reach critical mass, else they ignore us.

derek:

letters in newspapers help

Nora Callahan:

right jb

Diane Fornbacher:

There is a great disparity between what politicians do as opposed to what
the citizens want. There is a huge gap that we need to bridge. Many people
agree with us.

Richard Lake:

I agree, petitions, Drug Law Vigils
http://www.november.org/projects/projectvigiltour.html - A CANpaign for
freedom http://www.openthecan.org/ - Direct action!!!

Nora Callahan:

ah.... but Diane, not when you have enough people

people power, or power to the people

we are the 4th branch of gov't

Paul:

we are supposed to be the government

JayB:

We are the government

kevinblack:

Has anyone here seen the ad campaigns for Truth.com, the anti-smoking folks?

Nora Callahan:

okay.... so now what were we saying about getting more politicians on our side?

Diane Fornbacher:

Right Nora, I agree, just reflecting on the current ignoramus of our "Great
Representation of Government." You know I've got the "Hope" bug...

JayB:

Coercion by force of arms is not the same as the consent of the governed.

Paul:

sometimes you just have to make your own politicians

Nora Callahan:

Paul, ain't that the truth

derek:

people are doing life for cannabis violations!

Paul:

I am with the Federal Marijuana Party

Nora Callahan:

The November Coalition - tnc

or 'november'

Richard Lake:

It is very important to write, call, visit, your congresscritters and other
elected officials. Be where they are speaking and ask the tough questions.
Picket them if they clearly are not listening. I have a stack of mail a
couple of feet high from my congresscritter. If I had the $$ I would send a
donation to his office every time he voted right. A signal they understand
*smile*

Diane Fornbacher:

"CongressCritters"? Haha, Richard

derek:

Nora, have you been in contact with Will Foster?

Nora Callahan:

yeah, will - of course!

since inception.... since we had the freewill elist

Trippin:

Nora.. besides getting more people off the fence and getting more
politicians on our side...what do you think we can do about this blind eye
that the media has been using to quiet the movement?

Diane Fornbacher:

Tell me roomies, isn't will the most polite person in the WORLD?

Nora Callahan:

media

Nora Callahan:

well, I think the media is getting plenty pissed these days

you know - kept in the dark and fed bull s

not allowed to cover the war in any historical sense

the war on 'terror'

derek:

Nora, any trouble getting RZ [Razor Wire] inside?

Nora Callahan:

I think the media is gonna swing our way again huge

rz and the inside

let me answer that

underground in the supermax at Florence, warden Pugh says that we allow
communication between prisoners

he says our publication is detrimental to the security, good order, or
discipline of the institution....

kevinblack:

media respond well to both controversial issues and gimmics...have had no
problem getting them to vigils

Diane Fornbacher:

Nora, do you think that the media is starting to "come back to its senses"
after all the anti-terrorism stuff? Making connections about the WoD?

Fat Freddy:

Nora What do you feel that we could do to get us all together more? This
Chat is done every Saturday and Sunday night from all over. could we put it
out to all of the warriors to get together and talk?

Nora Callahan:

too many questions at once

lol

Diane Fornbacher:

GREAT IDEA FREDDY!

Nora Callahan:

with Richard as facilitator

I'd chat more if it had effect

more direct action that is

Richard Lake:

From what I have seen the superbowl terrorist ads got more bad press than
good by far. A good sign, IMHO.

Nora Callahan:

okay - back to the Razor Wire and Censorship

yeah, but mostly - the wardens do not censor us

and the ACLU is going to try to help us raise legal challenge

Mark Printz:

Wardens can not ban a publication they must review each issue

Diane Fornbacher:

pedal to the metal, we should get more organized. Put all the heads
together regularly for more intense planning.

Nora Callahan:

mark!

Mark Printz:

Hi Nora

Richard Lake:

That is good, Nora. About how many copies do you distribute now. Good on
the ACLU also.

Nora Callahan:

that is a former POWD

Diane Fornbacher:

There's only the NORML conference this year. Only one BIG opportunity to
connect together.

Mark Printz:

Sorry I am not around but will work on doing more still have 22 months of paper

Nora Callahan:

Depending on time of year from 15,000 to 25,000 and we are a quarterly

Nora Callahan:

I miss you, but so glad you are free

Mark Printz:

I love you thank you

Nora Callahan:

love you too Mark

wow...

I see your picture in my head

Diane Fornbacher:

Can you feel the love? Freedom is possible!

Nora Callahan:

yeah, but he did all his time

too much time

Nora Callahan:

okay

want to tell ya something

we have to get early release

they are losing hope

it's horrible, worse than ever

we are just leaving them behind

Nora Callahan:

tell that to my brother ff

he's been down 12 years

Paul:

ya they give all early releases to the murderers and rapists

Nora Callahan:

he's got till 2014 at the earliest

so, lets get them out

Trippin:

wow

Nora Callahan:

early release

change a code in the bureau of prison's computers

do not have to use the courts

Mark Printz:

I read everything and talk to people all the time wrote some letters that
were published in the papers. did my 5 for growing. It is so wrong that
such long sentences are being served I wish I could hack the BOP

Nora Callahan:

do not have to use prosecutors

Fat Freddy:

Yes I have a lot of sorrow for those that have been made POWs Nora.

Nora Callahan:

we got to do it, Mark

show them that there is public support for early release

Fat Freddy:

Lets start getting together here.

Nora Callahan:

well, okay, but ff - people got to get signatures

Nora Callahan:

kevinblack:

I'll work Seattle

Nora Callahan:

hope?

what is that made of?

Diane Fornbacher:

PEOPLE!

Nora Callahan:

a thread for those imprisoned

Paul:

it will branch out all over the net...that is the easiest part

Fat Freddy:

If you have something to pass out then this as a great place to come to.

Nora Callahan:

hope is what makes us human

people that are hopeless do not work

Diane Fornbacher:

Hope's always alive, no?

Nora Callahan:

in prison - Mark - is there a lot of hope?

Mark - tell them about 'hope' in prison

Mark Printz:

yes people always have hope and want the laws to change

right

Nora Callahan:

they are human

the prisoners still have hope

Mark Printz:

we used to think that this year something would change

Nora Callahan:

amazing.... yes, we did

so, we gotta deliver

Mark Printz:

always praying and wishing for some type of relief

Diane Fornbacher:

We'll see them on Friday, Nora. The "Drug War is Cold" demo is on Friday.

Nora Callahan:

yes, Diane is doing a protest on Friday in Philly

any prison for drugs is too much

want to hear about what of my 'bad days?"

Diane Fornbacher:

Outside the federal prison. They'll be able to see us from the slitted windows

Paul:

keep them up Diane...are they gaining more and more support?

Diane Fornbacher:

We see them cheer and write thank you on the windows

Mark Printz:

Reading the news we would get from the activist groups on the outside
really helps and we try and will to keep getting by hoping that our
brothers inside will get relief

Nora Callahan:

a mom from Seattle called hysterical. her son had a baggy of pot and she
didn't have enough money to bail him from king county jail

he was being gang raped there

Diane Fornbacher:

oh man

Nora Callahan:

he is dead

aids

Diane Fornbacher:

sigh

Nora Callahan:

so.... no more bad days

Paul:

so the system murdered him

Nora Callahan:

yes, drug laws did

hell of a sentence for a baggy of pot

Richard Lake:

Good national polls tell us 75% now think that the WOD can't be won. The
problem is to create a majority which will accept common sense solutions.

Nora Callahan:

right

people know it's failed

Trippin:

that is so sad...see what the system does.. its despicable

Diane Fornbacher:

Let them, our American brothers and our sisters, lives not be in vain...

Nora Callahan:

so, first thing is that we will ask everyone to help get signatures

we'll ask Matt to put an online sign on, BUT

that can NOT replace getting hard copy signatures?

we should be able to start caravans

collecting in towns - passing off to the next town

Nora Callahan:

kevinblack:

hitting the streets is the only way to go

Nora Callahan:

the trailer, carrying signed petitions

getting bigger

Plexiglas? so all can see?

and

federal level

keep the talk alive, the petition is almost done?

Nora Callahan:

we have prisoner cd's

voice of the prisoner cd (bracelets slow...we keep hoping someday it will
'catch on')

we have cd's and in 98 they aired on public radio constantly

some anyhow

it made it to #14 on micro broadcaster's charts

Nora Callahan:

posters to promote

email me a reminder to nora@november.org - outstanding idea!.

JayB:

thanks!. they could be the straw to break the camel's back.

Nora Callahan:

we have the pins too

lapel pins

thin blouse and they stick the beejeebees outta ya

lapels are fine though

Nora Callahan:

the CD's need to go out to radio again, with our petition website address
www.OpenTheCan.org

Fat Freddy:

Cher and Brian McCulluck will have breakfast with me tomorrow AM Nora I
will tell them that you said hi.

Nora Callahan:

anyhow, anyone wanting to help us 'resurrect' the CD project, we are ready
in about 3 weeks to do that

Nora Callahan:

oh, ff - do tell them hello!

Richard Lake:

Nora, you should understand that a lot of hard working activists come here
just to relax, to b.s. a little, if you will. It is my favorite place to
just shoot the breeze a little. So, no, the sessions here will probably
never be that action oriented. Still, along with everything else, we do
catch up here on a lot of action stuff, who is doing what. And get good
ideas we can work on....

Fat Freddy:

I sure will Lady, They were here on the 9th.

Nora Callahan:

well, I think that Canadians should start saying things like:

Micah:

do we not have Canadian brothers in jail?

Nora Callahan:

Coming to your backyard: The US Drug War

Paul:

ya it would more be like starting up a Canadian chapter of the November
Coalition

Nora, I watch for stuff on the November-L list to pass around. I am on
about 60 fairly action oriented email lists now. About 300 emails a day.
Maybe 40 or 50 just spam like. Yell at me if you have something hot that
needs passing around and I will make it happen in case I miss it.

Nora Callahan:

yeah Richard, but you do a good job of getting stuff on the l list

I appreciate it so

Nora Callahan:

grandkids here

JayB:

THANKS Nora.

Nora Callahan:

thank you JB

Jo-D:

thanx, so much, for your time/energy Nora!

Nora Callahan:

and all

kaptinemo:

thanks for stopping by, Nora! :)

derek:

thanks for all you do

Nora Callahan:

we'll let ya all know when the petition is up

Micah:

night nora

Trippin:

thanks for the chat..nora

Paul:

thanks for coming here tonight Nora...hope to see you here often

BigBong:

see you next time

Richard Lake:

Thanks for being here, Nora!!!

Nora Callahan:

I'm counting you all in for the first 30 million...

Nora Callahan:

love to you!

Paul:

count me in

Nora Callahan:

lol, good night all