WAR ON DRUGS, A WAR ON OURSELVES

[continued from part 1 at http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1435.a08.html ]

ANNOUNCER War On Drugs, A War On Ourselves with John Stossel, continues
after this from our ABC stations. (Commercial break)

ANNOUNCER War On Drugs, A War On Ourselves, continues. Once again, John
Stossel.

JOHN STOSSEL People do abuse drugs. So, what do we do about it? Government
talks about treatment, but for the most part, our policy has been, `Lock
them up.' And we do arrest 4,000 people a day for selling or using drugs.

13TH MAN I was just sitting there. I didn't even touch anything.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) Most of these people will be booked and released, but
every year thousands of Americans are jailed just for using drugs. And
jails are filled with people who sold drugs. Like these girls' mom.

1ST GIRL I want to be able to say, `Mom I need help with this problem in my
homework. Mom, can you help me get--can you help me get my bath started?' I
just want to have my mom there.

JOHN STOSSEL What did your mom do?

2ND GIRL She sold drugs.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) She's serving eight years to life.

1ST GIRL At my graduation, everybody was asking, like, `Where's your mom?'

JOHN STOSSEL What do you tell them?

1ST GIRL I just say my mom's living in New York. I don't like to tell them
where she is.

JOHN STOSSEL Compared to other countries, America does lock lots of people
up. More than a million are arrested on drug charges every year. And now
about half a million are behind bars--just for drugs, not for doing
anything violent.

MANUEL What I did was harm to myself. I've never done harm to anybody in my
life.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) Manuel's is in jail for using drugs.(OC) Well, at least
this will protect you from hurting yourself more. It'll teach you a lesson.

MANUEL Jails are crowded with drugs. I mean, you get them as--just as easy
as you do here as you do on the outside (sic).

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) These others are in for dealing.

14TH MAN I was jut doing it to support my habit.

JOHN STOSSEL By locking you up, at least we got rid of a dealer in your
neighborhood.

15TH MAN I'm just one person. There's a thousand more who are going to
follow my--in my footsteps and take my place.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) In many neighborhoods, when a dealer is locked up, it's
not a deterrent. It's a job opening.

JOSEPH KANE These drugs are so profitable that you take Tony off the
street, Tony's kid brother is selling the drugs the next day. Now, you put
Tony away, then you get the kid brother and then you get the cousin, and
then you get--why would they stop doing that?

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) They don't stop doing it. So some people say, why have
this war?

6TH WOMAN (Protesting) Stop the drug war! Sixty years and we haven't won!
It's time to quit!

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) They say they should be able to do what they want with
their own bodies.

GROUP OF PROTESTORS (Chanting) It's my body. It's my choice.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) They say they ought to have the right to choose their
intoxicants.

16TH MAN Do you know nobody has ever died from smoking a joint anywhere in
history?

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) This man lit up right in front of the cops.

16TH MAN It's not--it's not...

JOHN STOSSEL You're willing to go to jail?

16TH MAN It's not about the marijuana. It's about the freedom. I have the
right to make up my mind without interference from the government.

5TH WOMAN There is no risk to the population when a person sits in their
living room at the end of a long day's work and lights up a joint.

JOHN STOSSEL But it make us stupid. It makes you lazy.

5TH WOMAN Well--well--I don't think I'm stupid, I don't think I'm lazy. And
I'm a responsible adult. I'm an attorney, I pay my taxes. I live a good,
clean life, and if I feel like smoking a joint when I feel like it, that's
my business.

JOSEPH KANE We're making people criminals by calling it an illegal
substance. You have a narcotic agent, literally, with a very dangerous
substance in his hand called alcohol--(mimics drinking)--and another
dangerous substance--(mimics smoking)--and tell you, `Say no to drugs.' And
that's a--I mean, we don't even see the hypocrisy of that.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) At this rally, there were lots of police. They arrested
anyone they saw with marijuana. In this age of terrorism, I have to wonder
why were they here, so many of them? (OC) Do you ever wish you were out
chasing terrorists?

15TH POLICE OFFICER I'd rather be here than chasing terrorists, you know,
definitely.

JOHN STOSSEL Is this sort of a waste of your valuable time? I mean, are
these people a threat?

16TH POLICE OFFICER No, not at all. They're just--something they want to
do. I mean, they're not really a threat to us or a threat to--to each other.

JOHN STOSSEL Why is it illegal then?

16TH POLICE OFFICER I'm not the one that makes the laws. I just enforce
them. Why is it illegal? I don't know. I have no idea.

JOHN STOSSEL All right.

17TH POLICE OFFICER Because it gets you high.

JOHN STOSSEL Is the drug war a war we should be fighting? Is there a better
idea?

ANNOUNCER Europe's new anti-drug slogan: Just say yes. Legal drugs.

17TH MAN It's normal.

ANNOUNCER When John Stossel returns. (Commercial break)

ANNOUNCER War On Drugs, A War On Ourselves, continues.

JOHN STOSSEL There's no question that drugs often do terrible things to
people. Lives have been wrecked. But the drug war wrecks lives, too, costs
billions, creates crime. Is there another way? Much of Europe now says yes.
(VO) What would happen if we legalize drugs? (OC) Well, here in Holland, in
Amsterdam, it's already happened. Using marijuana is legal here. What's
that done? (VO) Holland now has dozens of `coffee shops' they call them
where marijuana is officially tolerated.

18TH MAN Did you try that grass yesterday?

19TH MAN Yes, I did, as a matter of fact.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) Red's a regular user. She smokes several joints a day.
(OC) Every day?

RED Every day.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) Red's now a manager at this coffee shop which offers a
menu of marijuana choices from joints to chocolates.

RED Chocolate bonbons. We have them in all three kinds of chocolate made
with weed butter added to it.

18TH MAN How much would you like?

20TH MAN Just a gram.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) The police do regulate the marijuana sales. Shops may
sell no more than about five joints' worth per person, and they're not
allowed to sell to miners. And no hard drugs are allowed, just hash and
marijuana.

19TH MAN That's good weed.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) So what's the result? Is everyone getting stoned? No. In
America today 38 percent of adolescents have smoked pot. But here in
Holland, it's only 20 percent.

JAMES GRAY They've taken the glamour out of it. In fact, the minister of
health of Holland has said, `We've succeeded in making pot boring.'

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) Maybe that's why half the people we talked to in these
coffee shops turned out to be American. (OC) You don't feel bad breaking
your country's laws?

21ST MAN No, I don't. No, I don't.

JOHN STOSSEL Why?

21ST MAN Because I don't see anything wrong with it.

RED The whole point about it is that it's a fun drug. It makes you feel
really nice. It doesn't make you violent. It makes you relaxed. It makes
you giggly.

JOHN STOSSEL So if it's such a good thing, why is it illegal in most of the
world?

RED You tell me.

GEORGE W BUSH Drug use threatens everything. Everything.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) In America, there's little interest in legalizing any drug.

FORMER PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON I am adamantly opposed.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) Officials talk about fighting a stronger war.

SENATOR TRENT LOTT, REPUBLICAN, MISSISSIPPI We call it a drug war, and yet
it was not war.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) Once President Clinton's surgeon general dared suggest
legalization might reduce crime.

DR JOYCELYN ELDERS (From file footage) I don't know all the ramifications
of this, and I do feel we need to do some studies. (To reporter) Heaven
knows I never had so much rain fall on me about what I considered a fairly
simple, innocuous statement.

22ND MAN The best way for Dr. Elders to promote the public health needs of
this country is to resign.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) Not even discussing legalization has roughly been US
policy for 30 years. As Los Angeles' former police chief put it...

WILLIE WILLIAMS It's simply wrong and it should not be even discussed here
in America.

JOHN STOSSEL You're not even supposed to talk about it?

JOYCELYN ELDERS Well, I guess you aren't. Nobody talks about it. And of
course, how can you ever fix anything if you can't even talk about it?

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) And most official talk about Holland's law condemns it.
`It's a failure,' said the last drug czar. `An unmitigated disaster.' (OC)
Is it really? That's not what we heard here in Amsterdam. This isn't even
controversial anymore?

17TH MAN It's normal.

JON FOSTER, GREY AREA COFFEE SHOP Dutch clients will pick up a small amount
of cannabis, the same way they would pick up a bottle of wine in the store.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) Rotterdam Police Superintendent Jur Verbeeks says kids
are going to try marijuana, legal or not. (OC) If you close down the coffee
shops, they wouldn't be able to get it. JUR VERBEEKS Where will the young
people go, tell me, please?

JOHN STOSSEL Maybe they'll give up marijuana?

JUR VERBEEKS Oh they are curious. And when there are no coffee shops, they
will go to the illegal houses and then the dealer says, `OK, you want to
have marijuana. Good, but we have cocaine as well. And we he heroin for you.'

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) That was a reason for the Dutch experiment with
marijuana, to separate soft drugs from the more dangerous hard drugs. But
in Holland, some people are experimenting with how to deal with hard drugs,
too. Check out what's going on inside this church. In the basement they're
buying heroin and injecting it right in the church. The police know about
this, but don't stop it. (OC) So already you feel it?

23RD MAN Yeah.

JOHN STOSSEL Feel good? (Man nods)

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) This is happening in Hans Fisher's church.

HANS FISHER It does not mean that I agree the use of dangerous drugs.

JOHN STOSSEL You're a drug dealer. You're allowing people to deal in your
church.

HANS FISHER I am not a drug dealer. I am not involved in the dealing of drugs.

JOHN STOSSEL You're inviting them into the house of the Lord. You're
the--you're the landlord who lets it go on.

HANS FISHER The church is for sick and poor people. In my opinion, drug
addicts are sick. We have responsibility for them.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) What Fisher's doing is illegal in Holland. Using hard
drugs isn't forbidden, but selling is. Fisher only allows addicted people
who follow certain rules to use drugs at the church, and police look the
other way.

JUR VERBEEKS When we interfere, then the problem is more bigger.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) Inside the church, addicts buy drugs from a few dealers
that Fisher selects. They buy through this window which replicates the
illegal buy they're used to. It also prevents greedy addicts from grabbing
too much. Then, three times a day, they're allowed to use the smoking room
or the injection room.

23RD MAN You have headache, you take medicines for your headache. I take
medicines. This, for me, a medicine.

JOHN WALTERS Most societies, if they've tolerated this, have tolerated it
because it affects a part of the population that they don't care about or
manage not to care about.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) America's drug czar, John Walters, says these user rooms
are a terrible idea.

JOHN WALTERS We want to make people well. We don't want--we don't want to
settle for institutions that just allow people to be addicted more safely.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) This doesn't look like a good life, but at least instead
of being street criminals searching for a fix, it allows addicts to hold
jobs and support families. This woman says one shot of heroin and she can
go to work. (OC) So, you can do your job stoned?

7TH WOMAN No, no, no, no, no. If I am stoned they send me at home.

JOHN STOSSEL But you come here, you get high.

7TH WOMAN No. Listen, I take only--I have my use under control. Before I
had this job, I maybe take eight times a day or 10 times a day, I take a
shoot. But now I only once take a shoot a day. So it's only....

JOHN STOSSEL Just--just because this place is making...

7TH WOMAN It's only to make me feel normal.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) What the Dutch are doing makes sense to Judge Gray.

JAMES GRAY They're addressing it as managers. We address it as moralizers.
We address it as a character issue, and if you fail that test, we put you
in prison. They are removing the criminal element. They have a lower drug
problem. They have a lower crime problem. They have fewer people in prison.

JOHN STOSSEL What started here in Holland has now spread. Today, police now
in most of Europe ignore marijuana use. In Spain, Italy and Luxemburg
they've decriminalized most drug use, and in Portugal recently, all drugs
use. (VO) That's not to say that all the experiments succeed. Switzerland
once tried what became known as Needle Park, a place where anyone could use
any drug.

8TH WOMAN It was just junky park. There were, like, 500, 2,000 people every
day there who would just, like, use drugs or deal drugs.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) It attracted crime because it became a magnet for junkies
from all over Europe. And in Amsterdam, ABC's hidden camera shows
legalizing marijuana shops doesn't stop people from selling illegal drugs.

24TH MAN (From hidden camera) I have heroin, I have cocaine, I have ecstasy.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) Critics say Holland has become an island of drug use.

25TH MAN (From hidden camera) Ecstasy, coke.

26TH MAN (From hidden camera) 25TH MAN One hundred per gram.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) But while this does happen, the use of drugs in Holland
and all Europe is still lower by far than in the US, and European countries
are proposing even more liberalization. American politicians have shown
little interest in that.

ASA HUTCHINSON We in America should have a different approach. We should
discourage drug use and we should try to enforce our laws.

JOHN STOSSEL But we've been trying that now for 30 years and we still have
addicts.

ASA HUTCHINSON We've been trying it for 30 years and we've had an
extraordinary amount of success. And yes, we still have addicts. Which
means, it's a very difficult problem that we're trying to achieve.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) He showed us a headline from a British newspaper. This,
he says, demonstrates that liberalization hasn't worked.

ASA HUTCHINSON "Drugs fuel crime rise."

JOHN STOSSEL But the crime part is caused by prohibition. This article is
about heroin crime, and heroin is still illegal there. If it were legal
people wouldn't be committing crime to pay for it.

ASA HUTCHINSON Well, let's talk about that. After prohibition ended, did
the criminal element, did organized crime go out? No, organized crime
continued. JOHN STOSSEL But it diminished.

ASA HUTCHINSON It shifted. They moved to other elements of crime. You do
not win in these efforts by giving in.

JOHN STOSSEL "Giving in." By that he means legalizing. Some thoughts about
that when we return. (Commercial break)

ANNOUNCER War On Drugs, A War On Ourselves, continues. Once again, John
Stossel.

JOHN STOSSEL How many wars can America fight? Now that we're at war against
terrorism, can we also afford to fight a drug war against millions of our
own people? Is it wise to fight on two fronts?

5TH OFFSCREEN VOICE (From video) (Unintelligible)...platoon, 3:00. You're
on the other hill.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) The last time America engaged in a war of this length was
Vietnam. And then, too, government put a positive spin on success of the war.

FORMER PRESIDENT LYNDON B JOHNSON (From file footage) Now, America wins the
wars that she undertakes, make no mistake about it.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) We've heard the same kind of optimism about the drug war.

FORMER PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN (From file footage) And we're beginning to
win the crusade for a drug-free America.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) But today more people have doubts.

JAMES GRAY It's the legitimate function of government to protect us from
each other. But where government goes astray is where we try to protect us
from ourselves. It makes as much sense to me to put this actor, Robert
Downey Jr., in jail for his drug abuse as it would have Betty Ford in jail
for her alcohol abuse. It's really no different. Hold people accountable
for what they do, but not for what they put into their bodies.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) Why not sell drugs the way we do alcohol, he says, but
maybe with more restrictions.

JAMES GRAY Make it available to adults. Brown packaging, no glamour, take
the--the illegal money out of it. And then furnish it, holding people
accountable for what they do. These drugs are too dangerous not to control.

JOHN STOSSEL (VO) Legal drugs. That's a frightening thought. Maybe more
people would try them. Judge Gray says even if they did, that would do less
harm than the war we've been fighting for the past 30 years.

JAMES GRAY What we're doing now has failed. In fact, it's hopeless. This is
a failed system that we simply must change.

JOHN STOSSEL Drugs do hurt people. But isn't the drug war worse? That's our
broadcast for tonight. I'm John Stossel. Good night.

ANNOUNCER For more information on War On Drugs, A War On Ourselves, go to
abcnews.com