FACE-TO-FACE WITH CHRETIEN

A Proud Prime Minister Reflects on His Past, Muses About His Future and Jokes About Trying Pot

OTTAWA -- For a prime minister under siege, Jean Chretien is a surprisingly
liberated politician.

His party wants him to fast-forward his retirement date. Paul Martin is
increasingly invading his turf. And party fundraisers like the one Chretien
will speak at tonight in Winnipeg are no longer hot tickets.

But sitting at the oak desk on Parliament Hill, which has been his domain
for the past 3,621 days, there are no signs of stress, no hint of
disappointment.

Instead, the Right Honourable Jean Chretien is a man proud of his political
past and excited about his future after 40 years in public life.

Free Press National Reporter Paul Samyn was given a rare opportunity to have
a face-to-face interview with the prime minister on the eve of his last
official visit to Winnipeg. The following are excerpts of their
conversation:

FREE PRESS: Ten years ago, your political opponents were calling you
yesterday's man. But last week, the influential magazine The Economist
talked about Canada being cool. Does that mean, by extension, that the
country's 69-year-old prime minister is also cool?

CHRETIEN:

Of course. As a nation we are not great braggarts even when we do very well.
We always show an element of shyness. We tend to look too much at the
negative side of things. But the reality is that this is a country which has
become an example to the world. That The Economist calls it cool is a great
compliment in a way. We have a society which is the envy of the world. We
are not the richest, but we call it cool. We have done a lot of things in
synch with the times.

FREE PRESS: How does it feel to have bills to legalize same-sex marriages
and decriminalize marijuana as the exclamation points to your political
career?

CHRETIEN:

The decriminalization of marijuana is making normal what is the practice. It
is still illegal, but do you think Canadians want their kids, 18 years old
or 17, who smoke marijuana once and get caught by the police to have a
criminal record for the rest of their life? So what has happened is so
illogical that they are not prosecuted any more. So let's make the law
adjust to the realities. It is still illegal, but they will pay a fine. It
is in synch with the times. I don't know what is marijuana. Perhaps I will
try it when it will no longer be criminal. I will have my money for my fine
and a joint in the other hand.

Same-sex marriage -- the decision has been coming from the court. Some
people complain that perhaps the judgment goes a little too far. But for me,
it is better to err on the side of giving more rights than taking away
rights.

FREE PRESS: I know you don't like to mix faith and politics, but did the
same-sex issue pose any difficulties for you as a Catholic?

CHRETIEN:

For me, I made up my mind a long time ago and it has been a tradition of the
Liberal Party. My grandfather had been refused holy communion because he was
a Liberal organizer. For us, my mentality, my religion belongs to me and I
will deal personally with that. I am a public person in a very diverse
society and I don't think I can impose every limit of my morality on others,
because I don't want others to impose their morality on me.

FREE PRESS: After a decade in power, what would be the high point?

CHRETIEN:

The day I won. And I hope the day I depart will be a high point. Normally,
most of the politicians when they quit, they are in difficulty. I am not in
difficulty with the Canadian public. I have never been so popular
personally. And one element I am very proud of is that I have never been so
popular in Quebec. You remember there was a time when I was probably below
zero in popularity. And now I am finishing with a majority of seats in
Quebec.

FREE PRESS: And the low point?

CHRETIEN:

I do not dwell on low points. It is like when you play hockey -- you know
that someday you will go into the boards. It is inevitable. So, OK, I was in
the boards today. I will get the guy in the boards tomorrow. You never write
about the guys who fell on the ice. You talk about the guy who scored goals.

FREE PRESS: After 40 years in public life, what will Jean Chretien do to
occupy his time post politics?

CHRETIEN:

What will I do? I will work. No doubt about it. My wife does not want me in
the kitchen every morning and every day. I am not very good there anyway.

FREE PRESS: But what will you be doing?

CHRETIEN:

Well, I am a lawyer and many law firms are asking me to join them where I
can be a general counsel with a lot of experience, and lawyers will come
with their clients and ask my views on all sorts of problems. I have seen a
lot of problems. After that I will be involved in some international
affairs. Kofi Annan said, "Don't think you are going into complete
retirement, Jean." That is what he said in front of the press at the UN last
week. I don't want a full-time job for any organization. I want the freedom
of moving around. I will probably be lecturing here and there and do what I
please, but I want to be useful.

FREE PRESS: How would you like Canadians to remember your time as prime
minister?

CHRETIEN:

I don't worry about it. Don't think about your legacy. It is a big mistake.
People will judge you for what you have done. I am not preoccupied. I have
done my best all the time, for 40 years. Perhaps my best was not good
enough, but in a sense after 10 years as prime minister I am proud of what I
have done.

FREE PRESS: During your last visit to Winnipeg, you visited the federal
disease lab and made clear the important role it has been playing. Is the
Winnipeg facility the logical place to headquarter a Canadian version of the
U.S. Centers for Disease Control, and what are you prepared to do to have
that happen before you leave office?

CHRETIEN:

I don't know if we are ready to make a decision on that. I was impressed by
what I saw. Other parts of Canada would like to have it too. So we will
analyze all the things. It is a plus for Winnipeg, but the decision will be
made in due course. The decision will be made very objectively.

FREE PRESS: Given both the Kyoto Protocol and the blackouts in Ontario this
summer, does Canada need an east-west power grid, and what role should
Ottawa play in funding it?

CHRETIEN:

I discussed that with (Manitoba Premier Gary) Doer, I have discussed that
with the premier of Ontario and I have discussed that with the premier of
Quebec. My view is that I would like the electricity of Manitoba to be used
in Ontario, but they will sell to the best price. If it were to replace coal
in Ontario, we could have good reason to help financially through our need
to meet our climate change goals.

FREE PRESS: Does the fact the Liberal seat count from Western Canada fell in
every election since 1993 mean your government has been out of touch with
Western Canadians?

CHRETIEN:

Compare the number of seats the Liberals had before me in the West and my
number of seats. Three elections in a row we had seats in Alberta. Many
times (before) we didn't have any. I have traveled more in the West than any
of my predecessors. Sweeping Alberta for the Liberal party will be a great
thing, but I am not sure it is about to arrive because of the tradition.
Other parts of the country have other traditions that favour us. They know
in the West that we will win but they vote for another party anyway.

FREE PRESS: In his first press conference after winning the Liberal
leadership, Paul Martin talked about the need to fundamentally change the
way the country was governed. In your mind, which is more important, change
or continuity?

CHRETIEN:

It is for him to decide. Each leader is different. For me, I am satisfied
with what I have done. The Economist is satisfied with what I have done. If
there is a need for fundamental change, fine. That is the judgment of one
person. I am a different leader than Trudeau was, than Pearson was, than St.
Laurent was. But for me, I ran the government the way I thought was the best
way and I look at the results.

FREE PRESS: One of the changes the next prime minister has promised to do is
reduce the powers of his office as part of a plan to tackle what he calls
the "democratic deficit." Is that naive?

CHRETIEN:

I don't comment. You pass your judgment. There is reality that there is one
day you have to make up your mind. You can never escape that. Process is
very important, but the right decision is even more important. There is a
lot of criticism of the way we name judges. Fine. But everyone writes that
the judges named to the Supreme Court were all of the first quality. If you
make a bad judgment you are blamed. I am telling you that as the prime
minister you have a lot of responsibility there. You don't want the people
to blame you because you named a bad (judge).

FREE PRESS: You talk about wanting the Liberal party to win the next
national election. Given that, are you at all willing to budge on your
retirement date of February if it is seen to be in the best interests of the
party?

CHRETIEN:

I made it very clear and the decision (to leave in February) was made in
what I thought was the best interests of the party, and nothing has changed
my mind so far. We have an agenda, we had a Speech from the Throne and, you
know, we are making a lot of progress. So far, I see no reason and Mr.
Martin and Madame Copps both said they have no objection. But I could die
tomorrow and there would be a change.