DEPUTY GLISSON INTERVIEW, PART 1

Muscogee County Deputy Sheriff David Glisson was interviewed by fellow
officers on Dec. 11 at 7:43 a.m. His interrogation came 11 hours after
Glisson killed Kenneth Walker during a tragic drug investigation.
Conducting the interview were Lt. Larry Tew and Investigator Allen Humphrey.

Lt. Tew: Today's date is December 11th. It is 7:43 a.m. I'm Lt. Tew with
the Muscogee County Sheriff's Department. With me is Investigator Allen
Humphrey and Deputy David Glisson. David was involved in an incident on
12-10 in a shooting incident on uhm . . . ah . . . highway 185 and David is
now gonna . . . ah . . . give us a statement uhm . . . from the time he was
deployed at the vehicle . . . ah . . . the things he's remembered. David .
. . go ahead.

David Glisson: Vehicle was heading south on I-185 . . . .uhm, Investigator
Blair was driv 'in, so I was in the passenger side. We pulled past one of
the patrol deputy who was . . . had already activated his blue lights . . .
.got on the driver's side of the vehicle . . . at that time he pulled over.
Uhm . . . .what he did, we came out of Rusty's vehicle, and I went to the
passenger back end of the suspect's vehicle, assuming Rusty went to the
driver's side. I ah . . . approached the back passenger door and already
had my gun leveled on the vehicle, and was holler'in for the people inside
to show us their hands. Uhm . . . when I opened the door, there was a black
male sitting there, uhm . . . again I started telling him . . . "show me
your hands" . . . and he never, he . . . he, he never would lift his hands.
So finally I reached in, had my weapon in my right hand, I was carry'in a
MP-5, I reached in with my left hand and grabbed in him, he had a leather
coat on. I grabbed him by the leather coat, and went to pull him out the
vehicle. Uhm . . . he wouldn't come out of the vehicle, and I kept pull'in
. . . ah, he was a large fella, at least he felt like a large fella, uhm .
. . at that time, I'm not a 100 percent sure, I believe it was Jonnie
Ellerbee that come up and helped me pull him out the vehicle . . . .but I'm
not a 100 percent sure because my vision was focused on him. He come out
the vehicle, again was still holler'in for him to show us his hands, to get
down on the ground, get down on the ground . . . ah . . . I don't know how
many times that was said, ah . . . I was like it was a bombardment of it.
We push the subject to the ground . . . I was on his right side . . . .I
put my left hand, back, shoulder, in that area and was try'in to push him
to the ground, still holler'in for him to get down. He had, I know he had
his right hand still up under him, I put my, as he went down to the ground,
I put my knee on him too, to tell me to get him to the ground. Part of him
was on the ground, he was kinda, not lay' in on his left side but the right
side was lifted up . . . a few inches . . . .and that's what I, the reason
I was try'in to still get him on the ground . . . and I still couldn't see
his right hand. As I pushed him down, the right hand appeared to be go'in
inside of his jacket. And . . . and at that time I thought he was go'in for
a weapon. Uhm . . . it startled me, and I remember I was . . . I didn't
fall back but I kinda went back, like it was instinct to try to get
separation, and ah . . . the whole time I was push' in him down, I had my
weapon pointed to this area, uhm . . . right shoulder, lower, I mean upper
back, right in that area. When I . . . .when I went back uhm . . . .the
round went off, I . . . I . . . . I, . . . I guess

the muzzle was go'in . . . .coming forward as I went back and the ah . . .
and the round went off.

Lt. Tew: OK, uhm . . . uhm . . . I'm just try'in to get a . . . a clear
picture of . . . of what happened, and correct me if I'm wrong . . . .uhm .
. . you and Jonnie are at the back passenger side of the Yukon?

David Glisson: Yes sir.

Lt. Tew: Uhm . . . OK . . . you opened the door . . . .the guy's not
complying with your verbal commands . . . . . . .

David Glisson: Yes sir . . .

Lt. Tew: Uhm kay . . . uhm . . . you have to . . . you and Jonnie . . . or
you, reach in to get him out of the vehicle so y'all could get him secured?

David Glisson: Yes sir.

Lt. Tew: Then, in the process in try'in to ah . . . get him on the ground
so you can get him secured, he was sort of, I guess more teeter-tooter . .
. on half way up, half way down, close to the ground?

David Glisson: He started out being very slow to get to the ground . . . ah
. . . 2 seconds . . . ah, he . . . he went to his knees immediately, I can
recall. It was getting him to go all the way down.

Lt. Tew: To the ground?

David Glisson: Yes sir. That took . . . that took him a while, and that's
when I to . . . try to push him down.

Lt. Tew: And that was . . . and that time, it appeared to you that he was
reaching inside of his jacket?

David Glisson: Yes sir.

Lt. Tew: Uhm kay, and I guess instinct made you move backwards?

David Glisson: Yes sir.

Lt. Tew: Tried to . . .

David Glisson: I think that's what it was. I think it was just instinct of
try'in to get separation, you know . . . .

Lt. Tew: Between you and him?

David Glisson: It's like you train . . . .and train . . . and train for
somebody to pull a weapon . . . when it really happens, you don't expect it
. . .

Lt. Tew: Yeah.

David Glisson: . . . and it's like I told Capt. Culpepper, it's hard for me
to tell you the exact second that I pulled the trigger because it was instinct.

Lt. Tew: Uh hum . . . was the . . . the MP-5 on single shot or 3 burst or
automatic?

David Glisson: 3 burst.

Lt. Tew: 3 burst . . . .when you went backwards was it just a step
backwards, was it like you sorta jumped backwards and lost your balance? .
. . explain if you, I mean, if you . . . .I know it's hard to ah . . .
think exactly how it was, but to the best you can remember, that process
try'in to make distance from that subject, I mean I know the vehicle is
right behind ya'll too . . .

David Glisson: Kinda to my . . . .it was to my right . . .

Lt. Tew: Yeah . . . .

David Glisson: . . . ah, I guess it was kinda to the rear of me. I . . . .I
can't remember exactly how far back I was.

Lt. Tew: Um hum . . .

Davis Glisson: Ah . . . it wasn't a step back because I wasn't on my feet
completely, like I said I had, I had my left hand and my knee on him.

Lt. Tew: So you were partly on the ground yourself?

David Glisson: Yes sir.

Lt. Tew: So . . . .

David Glisson: And I guess it was kinda a rock backwards . . . .it almost
felt like I had tripped, I mean like had fall'in but I never went to the
ground.

Lt. Tew: Hum . . . OK, hum . . . OK, so you were on your knee, on the
ground and you went backwards to distance yourself, like I said I know you
don't have, didn't have much room there from seeing the vehicle there. You
didn't come all the way back up . . . you were still, when the . . . when
the weapon fired, you were still partly down or standing up?

David Glisson: I was back . . . I was leaning back. Now after the weapon
fired, I immediately . . . I immediately came back up and my . . . when I
rocked back forward I remember I was just about directly over his, his
head, cause that's when I could see the wound. It was, I hate to call it a
trip because it was just like . . . (clap) . . . that fast.

Lt. Tew: But it . . . .would it, not meaning . . . try'in to put words in
your mouth, were you in a position that you were unbalanced?

David Glisson: At the time I fired?

Lt. Tew: Um hum.

David Glisson: I would have to say, yes sir.

Lt. Tew: Was it an intentional firing of the weapon or was it an accident
discharge?

David Glisson: I got to say that it was instinct, and I . . . I guess that
would classify as intentional.

Lt. Tew: OK.

David Glisson: And I . . . .I can't tell you the exact second that I put my
finger into the trigger, where you know we're try'in to keep our finger
out. I can't tell the exact second I put it in there and I can't tell you
the exact second I pulled the . . . it . . . it was instinct . . . is when
I believed he was go'in for the gun . . . it was instinct.

Lt. Tew: Um . . . OK, you know how many rounds was fired? And again, I know
that happened like that.

David Glisson: Should have been 3 . . . .I mean I . . . I . . .

Lt. Tew: OK, walk me through something here, the MP-5 handles how many
rounds . . . .full magazine?

David Glisson: Ah, 30.

Lt. Tew: And you would have one in the mags, I mean one in the barrel, and
30 in the magazine, or would the barrel . . . . the 30 counts the one in
the barrel?

David Glisson: If . . . if the magazine was fully loaded it would hold, I
believe it's 31 in the magazine, if the magazine was fully loaded.

Lt. Tew: So you would have . . . .the weapon has the capacity of 31 rounds?

David Glisson: I believe so. I'd have to check and make sure. I think I
remember correctly.

Lt. Tew: All right, if I counted the rounds . . . .

David Glisson: ah . . . I'm sorry . . . I take that back . . . because what
I, we don't keep one, you . . . when I take it out of my vehicle it's
unloaded . . . it's cleared and everything, and I put the magazine in and I
get the charge and handle it, so that would be the . . . so if it's fully
loaded it should be uhm . . . .29 in the magazine, and one in the chamber .
. . .once I charge it.

Lt. Tew: OK, can . . . .even on the 3 burst round, can the MP-5 shoot less
than 3 rounds?

David Glisson: I do not know.

Lt. Tew: OK, if the total maximum, I mean total maximum rounds would be 31,
I mean that we know that 30 magazine, 1 in the barrel is the maximum, I
mean that's the maximum that that weapon had?

David Glisson: Yes sir.

Lt. Tew: If I told you there was 29 rounds left in the magazine, what would
your assumption be?

David Glisson: That it had to fire less than 2 rounds.

Lt. Tew: And if 31 is the maximum amount of rounds and I have 29 left, 2 .
. . again I know that 2 rounds go off very quickly, and that's . . . you
were sorta trained that way too, to shoot that way, so if there's a
possibility those 2 rounds fired in that short period time . . . I mean,
I'm . . . OK . . . .I mean . . . .

David Glisson: I'm telling, I didn't throw my selector switch on the weapon
until I started out of Deputy Blair's car.

Lt. Tew: From safety on . . . the, on position?

David Glisson: Yes sir. I keep it on safety until start exiting the
vehicle. Ah . . . I'm not gonna say it's not an impossibility that I didn't
click it but one time. My intention was to click it 2, because anytime we
go'in on a raid, we generally put it on a 3 round burst.

Lt. Tew: What is it safety, 1, 3 and auto?

David Glisson: No sir . . . ah . . . I think you said it right . . . I'm
sorry, safety, semi, 3, and then fully automatic.

Lt. Tew: OK, so even if you had it on 3 burst and we only found 2 shell
cases out of 29 rounds left in the magazine and we know the weapon will
hold 31 maximum regardless, then there's no other possibility for you to
have shot more than 2 rounds . . .

David Glisson: No sir, not if it was on 3 round burst.

Lt. Tew: OK, at the time the weapon was fired, I know you said it was
instinctively done, can you remember how you felt or what was go'in through
your mind?

David Glisson: Scared.

Lt. Tew: Scared? . . . why?

David Glisson: I thought he was . . . .I thought he was gonna pull a gun.
They had told us before we did the take down . . . Sgt. Davila was giving
us our briefing . . . that the reason that they had called us out was
because I believe that he said that the informant had told him the suspects
was armed.

Lt. Tew: So you were told prior to arriving in a briefing, by a supervisor,
that the suspects were probably armed?

David Glisson: Yes sir, and that's the reason they called out the S.R.T.
team. Does it matter where anybody else was standing?

Lt. Tew: That's what I was about to ask you.

David Glisson: OK sir.

Lt. Tew: Ahm . . . do you remember this whole process . . . I know it
didn't take but just a split second . . . told me that the . . . ah . . .
.the ah . . . subject was not complying with your commands to get out the
car initially, right?

David Glisson: Yes sir.

Lt. Tew: Were you con . . . continuously trying to give him verbal commands
up to a certain point or . . .

David Glisson: We ah . . . I know I was and I could hear other voices from
the time we got out of Deputy Blair's car, for them to show us hands and
you know . . . . police officers, show us your hands, and . . .

Lt. Tew: Before the discharge, or directly after the discharge, did you
make any comments?

David Glisson: Oh I'm sure, especially right after . . . I was pretty
upset. I was . . . I mainly . . . I've been go'in over it in my head a
thousand times since then, I think the main thing is beside the fact that I
pulled the trigger on a human being was, I didn't mean for my shot to go there.

Lt. Tew: You're not aiming for the head?

David Glisson: Oh no. I was. My . . . my weapon . . . .I was concentrating
my weapon in this area . . . in the shoulder and upper back . . . .cause
that's where I had my left hand.

Lt. Tew: OK . . . .so in summary . . . like I, if . . . if I, saying
anything wrong or not exactly, please . . . . please correct me. You were
having trouble with the individual getting out the car . . . . he had to be
removed from the vehicle . . . um . . . . once you got him on the ground,
he still would not comply . . .

David Glisson: Yes sir.

LT. Tew: Um . . . .you were try'in to . . . . you, or you and Jonnie both,
were trying to forcefully get him to comply on the ground . . .

David Glisson: Yes sir.

Lt. Tew: OK . . . .at that time you saw him reach, what appeared to be,
inside his jacket and at the same time, to distance yourself from him, to
stepped or leaned backwards . . .

David Glisson: I leaned backwards.

Lt. Tew: . . . and stepped backwards or got off balance . . . go'in
backwards . . .

David Glisson: Yes sir.

Lt. Tew: . . . at which time you felt like he was go'in for weapon . . . Um
. . . did you feel like your life was in threatened?

David Glisson: Oh yes sir.

Lt. Tew: And at that time, out of instinct, is when you fired . . .

David Glisson: Yes sir.

Lt. Tew: The shot . . . .OK . . . all right . . . . it's 8 til 4 . . . we
gonna take just a few minutes break and then we will come back to the
interview.

Lt. Tew: Ah . . . this is ah . . . a continuation with the interview with
Deputy Glisson. David, like I said, in a few minutes we are gonna review
the tape and let you see it and we will play it as many times as we need to
play it so you can, you know, pick things out and it may bring some things
back. Ah, one of the witnesses made a statement, and I know you told me
that when it happened you know everything was messed up, and you may have
made a statement or something but you don't . . . you may not realize it.
Do you remember making the statement . . . just you were mak'in it to
anybody, one of those reaction things, "I tripped"?

David Glisson: I could have, because I remember that I was upset. I
remember I was upset because I didn't remotely . . . my gun wasn't . . . I
did not intend for my gun to be pointed that high. I don't . . . I probably
did lieutenant . . . 'cause I remember I, like I said, I went back and that
up . . . that if I hadn't of pulled back or leaned back, whatever it was,
the round wouldn't have went that high.

Lt. Tew: OK, when you went backwards and the round was fired, do you
remember how you ended up? Were you still back or did you go forward?

David Glisson: No sir, I went back forward.

Lt. Tew: You went back forward?

David Glisson: Because I remember when it was all said and done, I was . .
. I feel like I was directly over his head.

Lt. Tew: OK, you just . . . .was it a reaction of pull'in backwards and
then you went forward you think? I mean I . . .

David Glisson: Oh yes sir, I mean the whole thing was a reaction.

Lt. Tew: There's a point in the video, and again I'm gonna get you to walk
me through that and we will try to slow it down, and we don't have volume
on the video so I'm having to second guess what went on. I see a foot by
the tire that I think is yours so that would indicate that you were in
position, that you weren't standing on your feet or had gone backwards.

Davis Glisson: Oh, by the past few times.

Lt. Tew: Yeah, then there was a movement . . . . I don't know if this was
before the round went off, during the round went off, after the round went
off . . . . where you came forward with the MP-5 like that, like either,
from that position coming forward just as a reaction or coming forward
because maybe that's when the round went off go'in forward, I don't know,
that's why I'm try'in to ah . . . figure out when exactly the round went
off, and so we look at the . . . I mean . . . go ahead . . .

David Glisson: Oh I'm sorry, I . . . . like I said, I know I went forward.

Lt. Tew: Uh hum . . .

David Glisson: I . . . I remember that distinctly.

Lt. Tew: That was after the round or before the round?

David Glisson: Wasn't afterwards, I . . . I, well, I was sure about it .

Lt. Tew: And I'm not try'in to second guess you, I'm just try'in to clarify
the video.

David Glisson: I know . . . I'm just try'in to get it straight in my head
here, like I said . . . it was all just (clap).

Lt. Tew: Oh yeah, exactly.

David Glisson: I believe it was before, 'cause I said he went for the . . .
. he went for his jacket or something, and that startled me and that's when
I felt like I . . . I went back . . . I rocked backed and . . .

Lt. Tew: All right, when you rocked back, you think you fired the round
go'in back, after you stopped go'in back, or as reaction go'in forward . .
. you know as you went forward with the weapon?

David Glisson: I thought I . . . .I thought I fired it when I went back . . . .

Lt. Tew: When you went back . . .

David Glisson: Like I said, I didn't . . . I remember when I went back, it
. . . it wasn't but just a second 'cause I immediately caught my balance
and came back forward 'cause I didn't want to go down . . .

Lt. Tew: Uh hum.

David Glisson: . . . .and I . . . .I thought the round went off when I was
go'in back.

Lt. Tew: . . . OK, well let's look at the tape and that, you being there,
you . . . you may be able to clarify some things in the tape, then we will
come back and talk again. Um . . . It's 8:22 and we'll pick this interview
up in a few minutes.

Lt. Tew: Ah . . . this is a continuation of the interview with um . . .
Deputy Glisson. ah, we've had a chance to review the video tape from one of
the patrol vehicles. Um . . . from seeing the video tape David, sorta walk
us through what you remember, and what you see on the video tape and sorta
piece it together for me.

David Glisson: From the time I got in my car?

Lt. Tew: Yeah, from the time y'all got to the car, not the take down or
anything.

David Glisson: Oh OK . . . well . . . I said we came up to the passenger
side . . . um . . . I was order'in . . . I had my light on, on my MP-5 and
ah, I was order'in to . . . to show me their hands . . . show me their
hands and there was a lot of people holler'in the same thing. Ah, I opened
up the back passenger door, again told the subject, it felt like at least
three times . . . to show me your hands, ah . . . . the subject never did
raise his hands. Um . . . I finally reached in with my left hand to pull
the subject out of the car. Um . . . he, he . . . he didn't pull back but
he . . . he didn't move with me, he didn't . . . he didn't try to come out
the car. And I finally got him out of the car . . . the subject went to the
ground, we're holler'in for him to . . . to get on the ground. Um . . . he
never would go all the way to the ground, and I said at that time he was
kinda up on his left side of the chest I would say, and at that time I saw
his hand move in a manner that I thought he was go'in for a weapon and it
startled me. Um . . . I went backwards, what I, it felt like just a few
inches, I thought I had lost my balance, but it, that time my weapon, like
I said, I caught . . . .I caught myself and my weapon fired and which is
instinct, um . . . .I thought . . . . I thought the weapon had gone off as
I was go'in backwards. Ah . . . . when I caught my balance I came back
forward, and that 's when I saw the wound in the subject head. That's when,
I think it was Sgt. Davila, got me up . . . . got me up.

Lt. Tew: So you feel like the shot was as you were go'in backwards, when
you stopped going backwards or somewhere?

David Glisson: Well I tell you the truth, I was . . . I . . . . I . . . .I
was a hundred percent sure, you know, but like I said it was just so fast.

Lt. Tew: But what do you think was the cause of the movement of you go'in
forward?

David Glisson: Because I had lost balance and I was catching myself.

Lt. Tew: Reacting to losing your balance?

David Glisson: Oh yes sir, like I said . . . . it startled me. I thought I
was go'in down for a second. Excuse me. And I . . . I caught myself, and
from the tape, I didn't realize it at the time but it looked like my foot,
when I caught myself, it looks like my foot may have been against the tire,
and that may have gave me more thrust than I thought, but I didn't realize
that until I saw the tape. I know I must have caught myself on that boot
because I looked at my boot when I got home and it was scuffed on top and
wasn't before.

Lt. Tew: So you feel like the forward motion was a reaction from los'in
your balance and go'in backwards?

David Glisson: Yes sir.

Lt. Tew: And either, as you went backwards, or when you were backwards, or
when you started coming forwards . . . . sometime in that period was when
you shot the round off?

David Glisson: Yes sir.

Lt. Tew: OK, and again . . . . explain to me how you felt at that moment.

David Glisson: At the moment I fired or after?

Lt. Tew: No right there, before you fired . . . you know.

David Glisson: Oh . . .

Lt. Tew: When you explained to me that you felt like he was go'in for a
gun, and you thought he was go'in for a gun . . .

David Glisson: Scared me, I was . . . his movement convinced me that's what
it was.

Lt. Tew: Ah, . . . it's 8:44, we're gonna take a short break, and then we
will continue the interview.

NOTE: Interview was ended at 8:44 AM and was not continued.