'A BRUTALISED SOCIETY MUST BE VIOLENT...'

Nazma muller talks to Onwubiko Agozino, a professor of sociology
and a graduate of Edinburgh University in Scotland,
Cambridge University in England and Calabar University in Nigeria.
A lecturer in criminology at UWI, he had some very interesting
propositions for the Government on how to solve crime.

Q: Professor, how long have you been in Trinidad?

A: I have been here since August 2006.

So you know what's happening on the crime scene. What insights can
you give a society that feels it's under siege?

This country is not different from any country in the world today.
We are seeing a lot of violent crime related to the narcotics trade.
Narco-terrorism in South America is related to attempts to extradite
drug lords. A lot of young people are involved in the drug trade
because it's very lucrative, although the foot soldiers often make
less than the minimum wage. The trade has a lot of resources. It's a
very serious threat to security at the national and the international levels.

Obviously, though, the narcotics trade is not the only reason for
violent crimes, because there was violence before the trade. Go back
into the history of the Caribbean to the years of slavery, to the
wars between European powers over these islands. The slave trade
yielded huge profits through systemic violence, so there is systemic
violence in the very foundation of these societies. The trade in
humans was treated as legal by the colonising powers, but it is
recognised today as a crime against humanity.

We have to find a way of dealing with the trade in illicit drugs in
such a way that we can reduce the violence and the crimes associated
with that trade.

Well, what if we legalise drugs?

That's a good question, a logical question. But it's not something
that policy makers want to consider. [He refers to a chapter by
Horace Bartilow, an associate professor of political science at the
University of Kentucky in the US, "Does Drug Enforcement Reduce
Crime?"] His conclusion is that the war on drugs escalates the
violence. Arresting traffickers or b arons would simply generate a
war of succession among their subordinates. Your question is
legitimate and historical, because we have evidence in history of
decriminalisation being used as a tool to deal with violent crimes.

In 1976, the Netherlands decided to do an experiment. They said, for
five years let's see if decriminalisation of marijuana would make a
difference. And every five years since then, they have extended the
experiment. They still have it. Now the Netherlands is less
dangerous than the UK, France or Germany, which rely on the war on drugs.

So if the Minister of National Security came to you and asked you
for some solutions to the crime problem, what would you recommend?

I would tell him, try the Dutch experiment. Decriminalise marijuana
for five years and see if it will make a difference. It will create
jobs for young people who sell it. Doctors will be able to prescribe
it for Aids and cancer patients. You have a product that could make
huge contributions to the economy, and you are saying no? And it
doesn't cost the Government anything.

Number two: abolish the death penalty because we know that it is an
escalator, not a deterrent to homicide. Every jurisdiction that has
the death penalty has experienced a higher rate of homicide.

Why is that?

It's called the brutalisation effect. By having the death penalty,
the Government brutalises the psyche of the people in the name of
social control. It sends a message that using violence is a
legitimate response to a dispute or provocation. If you check back,
the homicide rate in T&T, up to 1999, was less than 100. What
happened in 1999? Nine people were hanged in one week [Dole Chadee
and his gang]. That brutalised the psyche of the people.
Immediately, the homicide rate doubled, and just kept climbing.
Every time the politicians talk about reintroducing hanging, it
goes up further.

If the Government abolishes the death penalty, they will send out a
message that human life is sacred, no matter what. The highest
punishment murderers will face is life imprisonment. And you may not
believe this, but they are afraid of life in prison and attempt
suicide, so that's actually a deterrent.

Legalise drugs, abolish the death penalty...any more suggestions
that might give Mr Manning a heart attack?

My third recommendation is to make sex work legal.

Surely, you jest?

Yes, it may seem strange, but if you legalise the industry, the
women and the men who work in it would be better protected. And
children would not be used as sex slaves. The government would be
able to regulate the industry, so this would ensure that the workers
are healthy and reduce rates of sexually-transmitted diseases.

Professor, you know you are talking blasphemy and committing heresy,
don't you?

My fourth suggestion is to legalise abortion.

Holy Mother of Jesus!

Even though it's illegal, there's nobody in jail for having an
abortion, so what is the point? All the law does is make it more
dangerous for women to get one, to risk their lives. Indirectly, it
gives men the idea that they have control over the bodies of women.
This is part of the Government's way of saying that women have no
control over their bodies. Even if a doctor recommends this
procedure for a woman to save her life, she cannot have the procedure.

Prof, I have to warn you, you're going

to bring down fire and brimstone

on your head...

Five, the Government must end discrimination against gay people.
There is a law that says if you are gay, you can't enter T&T. Yet,
Elton John came here. Which shows that if you are wealthy, you can
go anywhere in the world. The law actually discriminates against
poor people, who lack the protection that millionaires can afford.
If you see your friend acting or talking in a certain way, you start
to call him or her gay and, possibly, attack him or her violently.
And the Government is telling you that it's okay to condemn these
people. We shouldn't be judging other people, but the Government
indirectly supports this brutalisation of the society. Masculinity
takes a violent turn in the Caribbean, especially among the poor
young people, who take it upon themselves to enforce this rigid idea
of what it means to be a man.

Because I make these recommendations, doesn't mean I practise these
lifestyles. Let me make that clear. Quite the contrary, just as many
rich people campaign in the interest of the poor, many men campaign
against sexism and many white people campaign against racism.

It's a good thing you say that, because that's the first conclusion that the

critics would jump to: that you're a gay, drug-using baby killer.
Any other corns you would like to step on?

Another problem is alcoholism. People in these islands like their
rum and Coke. I would encourage the Government to raise the tax on
alcohol so high, as to discourage people from drinking.

Well, that's it then. Pack your bags...

Unfortunately, history tells us that when the economy is bad, people
drink more-to drown their sorrows. More education and counselling
might be a solution.

The problem is we don't see it as a problem. To be a real man you
must drink. How do we dispel these myths that young men believe in?

The problem I have found is that they don't have effective study
skills. The young women get it faster because they have more
responsibility at home. They have to do chores, so they learn to
manage their time. Young men can go out and lime all the time. But
they don't realise that they are under-developing themselves. The
Government should introduce a compulsory course called study skills.
Not for SEA or GCE, but to show boys and girls how to study smart
and pass exams without working too hard.

If young men could work smart, come into UWI and get their degrees,
the violence would be reduced. People who are successful
academically are less likely to resort to violence.

If you could send a message to the gunmen and gang leaders in the
country, what would you say?

Eat breakfast. A lot of people are not eating breakfast. The first
thing they do in the morning is drink rum. Research shows that if
you go without breakfast, you are irritable all day.

Secondly, the gangsters don't hate the people in their communities.
They just don't know who is an informer, who is helping the
Government in its war on drugs. I would tell them to show more love
to their brothers and sisters. Let us build a love institute. We do
not teach our young people how to love each other; we teach
them how to fight. We need to emphasise peace and love, the same
way Gandhi did, and he said that he learned it from the Zulus. There
is an economic crisis, and the way out is to invest more in our
people. That's how America, Japan and Europe are going to come out
of it. We have to have faith in our people. They are going to show
us the way out, if we trust them and empower them.