LOS ANGELES TIMES INTERVIEW
Jorge Madrazo Cuellar

Defending Mexico's Will to Fight Drugs and Corruption

By SERGIO MUNOZ

MEXICO CITYWhen Jorge Madrazo Cuellar was
asked to serve as Mexico's attorney general, he knew he
would face many problems. He just didn't realize how many,
and how deep, those problems would be.
Slightly more than three months into the job, the
43yearold former law professor and Mexico's first
humanrights ombudsman is engaged in a task that has been
called the country's most intractable: attempting to dismantle a
conglomerate of international drug cartels that use Mexico as
the spring board for distributing illegal drugs in the United
States.
To succeed, Madrazo will need much courage, for he has
entered an environment in which it is not always easy to
distinguish friend from foe. In addition, Madrazo's position has
become an international hot seat: He must deal with the United
States at a time when drug trafficking in Mexico has become a
domestic U.S. issue. His job is to convince a skeptical U.S.
Congress that Mexico has made progress in the war against
illegal drugs. Yet, the more Madrazo tries to accommodate
Washington's demands, the more Mexican public opinion, as
reflected in a highly nationalistic press, is convinced that the
nation's sovereignty has been deeded to Washington.
This is not all. Shock and horror have taken up residence in
America's southern neighbor. Mexicans are accustomed to
their country's unresolved guerrilla war in Chiapas and other
states, its perpetual economic crisis and the eternal political
shakeups. But what Madrazo now confronts is new and
almost fantastical: a torrent of rumors that threatens to ruin the
reputations of so many in the Mexican establishment.
For example, the attorney general has to deal with an
amazing soap opera, the central characters of which include a
former president's brother whose bank accounts in Switzerland
could feed thousands of impoverished Mexicans for a lifetime
and who is now under arrest, accused of masterminding a
murder; the former national antidrug czar, jailed for taking
bribes from the cartels; a former leading prosecutor now on the
lam, and a psychic hired by a this former prosecutor to find a
missing body that could have implicated the former president's
brother, and who instead unearthed a corpse that turned out to
be her own inlaw.
Madrazo was interviewed in his office at the headquarters
of the Procuraduria General de Justicia de la Republica
Mexicana, on the second floor of a modern building that
resembles a bunker. He works at the opposite end of the city
from his beloved National Autonomous University of Mexico.
* * *
Question: After the recent drugrelated scandals in
Mexico, there are people in the U.S. who say Mexico is not a
nation of laws. How would you answer them?
Answer: Mexico is a country of lawseven though we do
have our problems making law prevail. We have problems with
impunity and with corruption. But we don't hide our problems;
we face them and want to solve them.
Q: How would you describe the mood of the country after
these weeks filled with scandal and Mexicobashing in the
U.S.? Is the antiAmerican feeling growing here?
A: The process of certification does not help in any way to
fight against drug trafficking. It is a unilateral statement in a
bilateral relationship that becomes a recrimination. Passing
judgment on the country hurts both the authorities and the
people. Instead, cooperation that does not infringe upon the
country's sovereignty should be promoted. Having said that, I
should also say we do admit we have serious problems we
must fix.
Q: We'll come back to those problems, but could you first
answer some of the accusations Sen. Dianne Feinstein has
raised against Mexico? For example, she asserts, 'there has
been little or no effective action taken against the major drug
cartels."
A: I believe Sen. Feinstein is wrong. We have arrested and
jailed important heads of all the drug cartels. As a matter of
fact, we've just arrested Oscar Malherbe the heir of Juan
Garcia Abrego's cartel, and at least seven important members
of the Tijuana cartel. Two of them are held in jail in San Diego
and the rest are in a Mexico City jail.
Q: Feinstein also complains that those arrested, such as
Hector Palma, are given light sentences.
A: She is referring to a sixyear sentence a judge in the state
of Jalisco gave him under one judicial proceeding. We have
appealed that sentence. But I should add that she does not
mention there are several other criminal proceedings against
him for other illicit activities, including homicide, in the states of
Sonora, Sinaloa and Mexico. So this story won't end there.
We expect him to remain in jail for many more years to come.
Q: And her comments about the criminal moneylaundering
laws in Mexico being incomplete? She implies Mexico is an
important center for money laundering. Is that true?
A: We feel the legislative changes we implemented last year
to make money laundering a criminal offense was a great step
forward. Of course, we have to work harder to make it
happen faster, but we have already processed people charged
with money laundering, and many bank accounts have been
frozen. As a matter of fact, we have launched a
moneylaundering investigation against Raul Salinas de Gortari.

Q: Is Mexico willing to extradite Mexicans who have
committed criminal acts in the United States or who are
wanted for drugrelated reasons?
A: The United States has asked for some extraditions, and
each case has been dealt with in accordance with Mexican law
and within the parameters of the agreement that we have on
that issue. In Mexico, only the president has the authority to
order the extradition of a Mexican citizen, and we have
extradited some people who were involved in drug cases, in a
homicide, and even one for sexual abuse in the U.S.
Q: Why was Juan Garcia Abrego's brother released?
A: He was liberated by a judge's order that ran against our
position. His lawyers demanded an Amparo (a form of habeas
corpus), and the judge concluded he could be liberated. Once
free, we brought him to Mexico City for a deposition on
another investigation we have on him. He was not under arrest
and had the counsel of his lawyers. The problem we had was
that, in 48 hours, we had to prove probable criminal cause
against him, and our personnel set him free before they were
supposed to do so. Now we are investigating those two agents
who set him free. But you must understand there is neither an
arrest order nor an extradition request concerning Humberto
Garcia Abrego. In court, our office lost the case presented
against him in 1996. We are, however, investigating him on
another charge.
Q: Recently, you said the administration of justice was
Mexico's biggest problem. What do you mean?
A: The latest incidents reinforce my certainty that the
existing inefficiency of the implementation of justice in Mexico
is the biggest problem in the country. We have made progress
in the economythe recovery is beginning to take place; our
democratic processes are getting stronger. But I don't believe
we have achieved any systematic progress in administering
justice. We are in the middle of a crisis.
Q: What are the main problems you see?
A: I've been on the job for three months and two days, and
I can see clearly the inefficiency of our police forces. Also,
there is corruptionthe case of Gen. Jesus Gutierrez Rebollo
(the former drug czar) demonstrates clearly that we have to
modify our operational systems, structures and strategies. This
is not only a simple question of change in personnel. We must
implement a series of reforms at once, and we must hire people
who have been inoculated against fear and corruption.
Q: How can you do that?
A: All those who want to work with us must go through a
series of five filters that examine their health condition and
psychological profile. We'll use polygraphic tests and check up
their economic status with a followup on their spending
behavior. But we are also raising salaries and offering job
stability, life insurance and other benefits. We have to restore
dignity to the lawenforcement career.
Q: What are the charges against Gen. Gutierrez Rebollo?
And will he be tried in a military or civil court?
A: Both. The army will try him for criminal acts he
committed while serving as the military commander of the 5th
zone. This office charged him for belonging to an
organizedcrime group, for favoring drug trafficking and a third
charge of conspiracy. All these are crimes we know he
committed during the almost three months he acted as drug
czar.
Q: Could he be sentenced to death?
A: The death penalty is a possibility in the Military Justice
Code. But that is not my responsibility. We'll take care of our
business and expect an exemplary sentence.
Q: What proof do you have that he was involved with drug
traffickers?
A: We know he was living in an apartment that belonged to
(drug lord) Amado Carrillo (Fuentes), who owned another
apartment a few floors up in the same building. But we also
have a witness who testified the apartment was given to him by
one of Carrillo's staffers and much more evidence and
documents that make us believe he is guilty as charged.
Q: You have so much pending business that I would like to
clarify where some of it now stands. Who killed Cardinal Jose
de Jesus Posada?
A: We believe that case is solved and the only way we
would open another investigation would be if there is new
evidence that points elsewhere. The evidence we have
gathered, so far, does not question the results of the initial
investigation in 1993. Unfortunately, he was shot unintentionally
in the crossfire between two rival criminal gangs.
Q: What is Raul Salinas charged with?
A: We have two criminal procedures against him. One for
masterminding the murder of Jose Francisco Ruiz Massieu; and
another for illicit enrichment. However, we are also
investigating him on other possible criminal acts, including
money laundering.
Q: What about tax evasion?
A: He was exonerated by a judge on one small case of tax
evasion, but that has nothing to do with the big money.
Q: Don't you think that, after the scandal in which a psychic
revealed the place where a body was planted on Raul Salinas'
property, there seems to be a weak case against him?
A: We still believe he masterminded the killing. We are
trying to add substance to the proof we have and, from a legal
point of view, the body on his property was not part of the
process. It was an investigation that did not pan out.
Q: Are you also investigating former Atty. Gen. Antonio
Lozano?
A: He's been called by this office and he has made himself
available three times for inquiries regarding payment to
witnesses . . . . As far as I know, every single police
organization in the world pays informants . . . . But we want to
know how that money was paid: From which accounts was it
drawn; what did they pay for, and when did they pay?
Q: Are you going to ask the U.S. to extradite former
prosecutor Mario Ruiz Massieu to Mexico?
A: As you know, Mexico tried four times unsuccessfully to
extradite him.
Q: What do you suspect he did that was a criminal act?
A: We want to know where the $9 million deposited in
Texas came from. We also want to know what evidence the
U.S. has to claim that $9 million. We are waiting to hear what
comes out of the case against him in Houston.
Q: What about the recent accusations leveled against two
Mexican governors who allegedly collaborate with some drug
lords?
A: If anyone knows that these two governors are involved
in an illegal business, they should send us proof of such a
serious accusation. No one has done that.
Q: Why not check the information?
A: We have investigated criminal activities in those two
states and we have found nothing that could lead us to launch a
criminal investigation there. Yes, there is drug trafficking in
Sonora, in Morelos and in many other states of the republic,
but that does not allow us to conclude that the governor of that
state is responsible for that criminal behavior.
Q: What do you believe will be the outcome of certification
in Congress?
A: I am not an expert on American politics, but I do know
the burden in the fight against illegaldrug trafficking is carried
by the Mexican people. We have to do it to protect our
society, our youth and our institutions. Hopefully, our fight may
also help to improve the lot of young Americans. The enemy is
neither the United States nor Mexicothe enemy is drug
traffickers and it is against them that we should devote our
effort.
Q: Are you optimistic about Mexico's future?
A: Yes, I am an optimist who believes that good bilateral
cooperation can bring us the best results. We have urgent
business pending regarding moneylaundering legislation, illegal
traffic of weaponry and in so many other areas. We should not
blame each other. The U.S. should stop saying Mexico does
not cooperate enough, and Mexico should stop saying the U.S.
should stop its consumption of illegal drugs. Let's focus on the
common enemy.

Sergio Munoz Is an Editorial Writer for The Times

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