OFFICERS 'RESPONDED AS THEY WERE TRAINED'

Shooting justified, Hiebert inquest told

ABE HIEBERT was acting defensively when he threatened police with a bat, yet
officers were still justified in shooting him, an inquest was told
yesterday.

Patrol Sgt. Randy LaHaie, who trains Winnipeg Police in safety and personal
defence, agreed with lawyer Martin Pollock that Hiebert was acting like
someone trying to defend himself and prevent people from entering his north
end house when he was shot and killed on Dec. 16, 1997.

However, LaHaie said Det. Sgt. Len Small was justified in shooting Hiebert,
because Small believed Hiebert was about to seriously injure his colleague,
Const. Harol Schlamp.

"They responded as they were trained," LaHaie said of the officers' actions.

Small shot Hiebert during a police raid on his home. Hiebert, 60, was a
known trafficker in Talwin and Ritalin, known as poor man's heroin. He was
set to go to jail the following month as a result of a plea bargain from
earlier charges.

Police are taught to use a defence method called One Plus One, LaHaie said.
For their own safety, they are to respond to a threat with one step greater
force than that of the threat. For example, if someone tries to punch them,
they may use an "intermediate weapon" such as pepper spray. Under that
philosophy, it is proper to use a gun against a baseball bat, he said.

Winnipeg police generally carry pepper spray, a baton and a gun. Standard
guns are 40-calibre Glock semi-automatic pistols. Uniformed officers carry
guns with 15-shot cartridges. Plainsclothes carry nine shots. Glocks are
easier and quicker to reload than the old six-shot revolvers officers once
used, LaHaie said.

Winnipeg police do not carry stun guns, also known as tasers, or stun
batons, as do many North American forces. LaHaie testified they are not a
strong defence against a lethal threat. No other weapon could have been used
in place of a gun that night, LaHaie said.

Officers involved in the fracas at the back of Hiebert's Dufferin Avenue
house would likely be under a considerable level of stress, which can impair
responses to and memories of the event, LaHaie said. The stress would make
it difficult to accurately aim a gun, LaHaie said.

Officers are trained to shoot at the torso, because it is the largest and
least mobile part of the body. Officers only shoot to the head or groin if
torso shots don't work, and the officer assumes the target is wearing body
armour.

Hiebert was shot in the right side of the chest. He was declared dead at
Health Sciences Centre at 11 p.m., about a half-hour after being shot.

Small said he was defending Schlamp when he shot Hiebert, yet testimony has
placed Schlamp in three different positions at the time of the shot. LaHaie
said the discrepancies in Schlamp's position were minor and are to be
expected.

It would have been unsafe to try to pull Schlamp to safety, because that
could have put two officers within range of the bat, LaHaie said.

The inquest is not sitting today. It resumes tomorrow.