IS AMERICA'S WAR ON DRUGS A FAILURE?

LOU WATERS, CNN ANCHOR: Several significant dispatches today from America's
so-called war on drugs. First, the feeling on the street is, the war's a
dismal failure.

A new survey by the Pew Center for the People and the Press finds nearly
three-quarters of Americans say it is a losing battle. And the same number
say they have little hope it will ever succeed because drug demand remains
so high, that it'll be impossible to stop drugs use.

Renewed interest in the drug war has been inspired recently by the
Oscar-nominated film "Traffic," a film that examines the inability of U.S.
government policies to stop the drug trade as seen in this clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "TRAFFIC")

MICHAEL DOUGLAS, ACTOR: We need to send a message. When Carlos Ayala hires
Michael Adler as his legal defense, I send Ben Williams down to San Diego
as a prosecutor. Why? Because it's a symbol. It's a symbol that we are
sending the best. And it's a message that we're going after their top guys.

So right now on this flight only, the dam is open for new ideas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATERS: Michael Douglas there portraying America's drug czar.

According to the Pew Center poll, more than half of those surveyed say
interdiction, keeping drug shipments out, remains the government's most
effective anti-drug policy.

Reaction to the poll now from two folks with very different viewpoints.

Betsy Glick is with the Community Anti-Drug Coalitions of America, which
favors a community-wide approach to fighting drug abuse. She joins us from
Washington. Welcome, Betsy.

And also, New Mexico's governor, Gary Johnson, long favors decriminalizing
drugs, such as marijuana and heroin. The governor joins us by phone now
from Santa Fe. Governor, I know you're taking a precious time out to speak
with us, so I'll get to you first. First of all, have you seen this movie
"Traffic"?

GOV. GARY JOHNSON (R), NEW MEXICO: I have. And I agree with your poll
today, that the war on drugs is a miserable failure. And it's a miserable
failure because it's being waged against 80 million Americans who have done
illegal drugs.

And this is in no way condoning drug use. All right? Anything I'm about
to say is in no way condoning drug use. But we need to start to draw a line.

And the line we need to draw is similar to alcohol. And let's not forget
that at one point in this country's history, it was criminal to have a
drink. The line we need to draw is, Hey, you're having a drink; that's a
acceptable behavior. But you go outside of the bar after having had a
drink and get in a car and drive the car, that has now become a criminal
behavior.

That's the line we need to draw when it comes to a lot of these drugs, is
doing -- smoking marijuana in the confines of your own home, doing no harm
to anybody arguably than yourself. Is that criminal? I say no.

And right now, Lou, we are arresting 1.6 million people a year in this
country on drug-related crimes. This is a war on ourselves. We're never
going to win it.

WATERS: Let me, Governor, give you a chance to hear Betsy Glick with the
Anti-Drug Coalition of America, give her perspective on this. Then I'd like
you to respond.

Betsy, what do you think?

BETSY GLICK, ANTI-DRUG COALITIONS OF AMER.: Well, certainly many people in
the prevention field are beginning to feel that really we are -- we're in
an epidemic. We don't refer to it as a war. We look as drug addiction as
a disease that needs to be resolved.

And we are challenging all of our members, local coalitions around the
country, to find ways to help solve those problems one community at a time
in their own backyards.

And we have seen some success in this area. I think that some of the
statistics that this Pew study shows are misleading, because drug use has
gone down almost 50 percent in the last 20 years.

Clearly there are some areas like ecstasy, methamphetamines that are
becoming more popular these days. But that's why we need to attack this
problem in the communities on a community level.

WATERS: I'm hearing you saying essentially what the governor saying.
Incarceration is not the answer.

GLICK: Certainly we believe that the best way to solve the drug problem is
to stop people from beginning drugs in the first place. And that's going to
come by educating our teenagers, by setting up programs and communities
that are enabling them to stay healthy and drug free. And we've got some
significant federal assistance in that regard.

But certainly it's going to take a lot of people working on a local level.
School, educators, businesses, doctors, hospitals, preventive
medicine. And that's really what's going to help us solve this problem.

WATERS: And with the broad brush, Governor, isn't that what Vicente Fox,
the new president of Mexico, was telling President Bush? We'll work on the
supply, but you have to work on the demand.

JOHNSON: Well, it's hypocritical to say that it's OK to smoke marijuana but
not sell it. And that's another problem.

It's great to have a recognition that this is a medical problem, not a
criminal problem. And one of the fundamental problems with the drug war,
one of the fundamental problems with what the government does today, is
that they fundamentally believe that tens of millions of people, for
example, that smoke marijuana fundamentally belong in rehabilitation. And
that is just simply not the case. Fundamentally most people that smoke
marijuana smoke marijuana, like other people have a cocktail in the evening.

And the whole belief that we have reduced drug consumption by 50 percent is
absolutely mythical. We spent $1 billion on federal drug interdiction in
1979. Today, we're spending federally about $20 billion.

I guess we can expect that as we get used down to just a few hundred users,
that we'll be spending the entire, national, you know, all of our money on
reducing drug use. It's ridiculous. No. I don't think use has been
dropped by 50 percent.

WATERS: How about that, Betsy? In 1999, 46 percent of the
million-and-a-half total arrest for drug abuse violations were for
marijuana. Over 700,000 arrests were for marijuana. So what about the
governor's point?

GLICK: Well, I would still take issue with the governor, in that we have
statistics that show that cocaine use specifically is down by four million
users since 1985. And illicit drugs overall, there are eight million fewer
users. So I do believe that we made some progress.

And we have to continue, again, working on the demand side. I think that's
one of the things that the movie "Traffic" has really highlighted, is that
we can stifle the supply side. But if we don't stop the demand for drugs,
that we are never going to be able to resolve this epidemic.

WATERS: There's one other statistic, Governor. As many as 90 percent of
drug offenders in state prisons today are black.

JOHNSON: Well, that's a fact, Lou. And not only that, but half of those
marijuana arrests -- I mean, depending on -- so 350,000 of the 700,000
arrests for marijuana are Hispanic. Tell me that 50 percent of the users
of marijuana in the United States are Hispanic.

Point being these laws are terribly discriminatory, between who gets
arrested and who actually ends up spending time. If you're of color,
there's like a seven-to-one ratio of you are going to spend time in jail if
you're of color having been arrested.

WATERS: Have you factored that into your thinking, Betsy? The fact that,
as the governor says, these laws are apparently very discriminatory?

GLICK: I really don't have enough information about that issue to talk
about it.

But what I can say is that we again are working with communities. And each
community is really trying to find ways in their own community, whether
that community be black or Hispanic.

But we are working with leaders in those communities to find solutions to
their problems. And anybody who has a problem in their community and would
like some assistance, please visit our Web site, cadca.org. And we'd be
happy to help you with that.

WATERS: All right, we thank you both. This was going to be a topic of
discussion throughout the day here on CNN and in weeks and months and years
to come, we would imagine. Betsy Glick with the Anti-Drug Coalitions of
America. And Governor Gary Johnson, the Republican from New Mexico, we
thank you so much, sir, for taking your time out.

JOHNSON: All right. Again, where is the dividend in the drug war? If
we're reducing drug use by half, where is the dividend? Thanks.

WATERS: And there's the last word from the governor. Natalie, what's next?

NATALIE ALLEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Washington is zeroing in on one drug in
particular today. A new White House policy report is warning of a
potential new epidemic involving the use of ecstasy, once the drug of
choice at night clubs and all-night dance parties known as raves.

The report finds supply and use have expanded dramatically. According to
the report, the drug is now being sold in high schools, on the street, and
even at coffee shops in some cities.

Just yesterday, the U.S. Sentencing Commission stiffened penalties for sale
of ecstasy. The new guidelines more than triple potential jail terms, to
more than six years for people caught selling at least 800 of the pills.
The Supreme Court today ruled hospitals cannot test pregnant women for
illegal drugs without their consent, and then turn over those results to
the police.

The Justices ruled six-to-three in a case from South Carolina. The High
Court said such testing violates the constitutional guarantees against
unreasonable searches and seizures, even though the hospital's goal was to
prevent women from harming their fetuses by using crack cocaine.