GENERAL BARRY MCCAFFREY DISCUSSES THE US RELATIONSHIP WITH PERU AND ITS WAR
ON DRUGS

WERTHEIMER: General Barry McCaffrey was in charge of the war on drugs in
the Clinton administration after he retired from the military. Now he
heads his own consulting company. He joins us from his office in northern
Virginia.

General McCaffrey, there was an American aircraft providing intelligence
when the missionary aircraft was shot down in Peru. Could you just explain
to us what this project is. I mean, how did the US get involved in flying
those sorts of missions in tandem with Peruvian fighter aircraft? How does
that work?

General BARRY McCAFFREY (Former Director, Office of National Drug Policy):
Well, for the past probably at least seven to eight years, throughout the
region, but in particular the Andean ridge on the Caribbean, there is a
cooperative intelligence sharing agreement between the 34 nations of the
hemisphere in which in many ways the United States tries to support their
national authorities with counter drug intelligence. And clearly that
includes some extensive use of US intelligence and surveillance.

WERTHEIMER: General McCaffrey, as we have read about this particular
incident there's been a regular alphabet soup of organizations of elements
of the national government that have been involved--our national
government. The State Department, the Defense Department, the Drug
Enforcement Administration, the Central Intelligence Agency; the plane
comes from one group, the pilots come from another group. Can you sort out
how something like that happens from your own experience?

Gen. McCAFFREY: When it comes to the detection and monitoring mission,
normally that is coordinated in the international arena by the US armed
forces. There are two headquarters. One called Joint Inter-Agency Task
Force East in Key West, Florida, headed by a Coast Guard two-star admiral,
that tries to ensure a coherent, comprehensive and cooperative operation in
Latin America. But there's another headquarters that does it in the Pacific
region. And by the way, you know, in the case of Peru and Bolivia, that
program has worked in a spectacular fashion. Peru is able to reduce their
cocaine production by more than 65 percent in the last five years. Now
part of that's due to this air interdiction.

WERTHEIMER: General McCaffrey, when you were running this kind of thing
from your end was there some sort of principle stated about when the United
States intelligence aircraft said that an aircraft was suspicious or when
they said that it was not; when the go--given the go-ahead to shoot at an
aircraft and when they were not; some sort of protocol to follow that said
who could say no?

Gen. McCAFFREY: Well, not being in public office I don't know what the
procedures now are, but as general statement, only the authorities of a
national government can exercise any authority at all, and then only in
accordance with their own national law and international law over criminal
counter-drug actions in their own air, land or sea space. So this must be
a decision of national authorities.

WERTHEIMER: Do I take it that is your view that there must have been some
sort of very serious breakdown?

Gen. McCAFFREY: Oh, it looks to me at face value that it was, you know, a
terrible tragedy. It calls for a careful investigation to check the
training and the command and control and the procedures. They've got to get
this right. We can't subject innocent air traffic to interdiction.

WERTHEIMER: General Barry McCaffrey is the former director of the Office of
National Drug Policy for the White House. He served under President
Clinton. He is now president of a consulting firm, McCaffrey Associates,
and is teaching part time at West Point.

General McCaffrey, thanks very much.

Gen. McCAFFREY: OK. Bye, bye.