FORUM SCHEDULE:

Saturday, 23 June, at 10 p.m. Eastern, 7 p.m. Pacific: The second chat
session with Judge Gray will be held in the DrugSense chat room at
http://www.drugsense.org/chat/ The first chat session with Judge James Gray
was held last week. A transcript of that chat is at
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v01/n1065/a01.html

June 26, 2001 8 p.m. Eastern: Kay Lee & Jodi James of the Journey for
Justice http://www.journeyforjustice.org/ Journey news stories are at
http://www.mapinc.org/journey.htm Join Kay and Jodi in the New York Times National Forum on Drug Policy
http://forums.nytimes.com/comment/index-national.html

Sun. July 1, 2001 8 p.m. Eastern: Kevin Zeese returns for his second forum
in the DrugSense chat room.

See: http://www.cultural-baggage.com/schedule.htm for details.

TRANSCRIPT OF KEVIN ZEESE'S VISIT TO THE DRUG POLICY FORUM

On Wednesday, June 20, the NYTimes-com's Drug Policy forum hosted Kevin
Zeese, President, Common Sense For Drug Policy. This discussion was the
second in a series organized by forum participants.

Kevin Zeese: Hello All:

I've arrived a bit early, but I'm here.

Kevin

Tom Barrus: Hi Kevin,

How long are you able to converse with us?

- - Tom Barrus

Kevin Zeese: Regarding Prop 36 -- for those who do not know, this was the
California initiative that required treatment instead of prison.

This is a difficult issue some argue that coerced treatment is just a way
to expand the American gulag with a kinder and gentler face. Certainly,
some recent research on drug courts supports that view.

Another concern is that we are setting up a seperate system of justice for
drug offenders, with less due process since the government is only trying
to help.

Also, just because someone gets arrested it does not mean they need
treatment. Thus treatment resources may be misspent.

On the other hand, if I were in front of the judge I would want the option
of treatment instead of prison.

I favor these initiatives but it is important to express our concerns so we
can guard against them. I do think we can do that and do like the idea of
the American public voting against locking up drug offenders.

Kevin

Kevin Zeese: I'll stay on at least an hour and longer if the discussion is
hot and heavy.

Kevin

Mark Greer: Hello Kevin and All!

I concur with sinverguenza28. Those just learning about drug policy issues
would be well served to study the fascinating array of _facts_ including
citations at www.drugwarfacts.org. MG

Dean Becker: Hi Kevin,

Thank you so much for the time you can spend with us here today.

What can citizens in states like Texas do, when there is no initiative
process available to them?

Kevin Zeese: Regarding what can be done to bring us closer to marijuana
legalization.

1. Realize you have more power than you think. One person can make a big
difference and a few people -- well organized can bring about significant
change.

2. I'd recommend outreach to non-drug policy reformers. The marijuana war
- -- and the drug war generally -- effects every major social issue we face
- -- health care, adolescent development, racism, militarism abroad,
environmental degradation etc -- so you can make a list or organizations
(religious groups are important) to reach out to -- listen to their areas
of concern and explain to them how the drug war effects them.

3. Go to http://www.drugsense.org and sign up for their weekly focus
alerts. In a few minutes each week you can help influence the media.

4. Go to http://www.CSDP.org and look for the section on getting active. We
will let you know what groups are working on the issues you care about so
you can work with them.

5. Go to http://www.drugwarfacts.org. You can be an expert on drug policy
with this booklet. Use it to write letters to the editor, call radio shows,
contact the media and write your legislators.

6. Do good work like helping to stop the spread of HIV. Needle exchange
programs exist in over 120 cities. Find yours and volunteer.

Kevin

Tom Barrus: Are you a lawyer?

Isn't it true that tobacco meets the definition of a schedule I controlled
substance, and alcohol meets the definition of a schedule II in the
Controlled Substances Act (CSA)?

US Code : Title 21, Section 812

Since the justices of the supreme Court recently ruled 8-0 that cannabis
has no medical use and there is no medical exception from the CSA, on what
basis are tobacco and alcohol exempt from the CSA {21 USC 802(6)}?

US Code : Title 21, Section 802

How does this square with the Equal PROTECTION Clause in the Constitution?

AMENDMENT XIV, Section 1

Richard Lake: Thank you, Kevin, for being here!

Yesterday Bill Zimmerman of Campaign For New Drug Policies met with a
handful of Michigan activists about the Prop. 36 type initiative, which
will amend the state constitution.

When asked about forced treatment, he stated that folks do not accept
treatment; i.e., they can elect to go to jail. Some choice!

He said that his polls indicate a higher level of support in Michigan for
the initiative than there was in California, which I believe. The voters
seem to have much more common sense than those they elect.

Comments?

Kevin Zeese: Tobacco and alcohol are exempt because that is the way
Congress wrote the law. It has nothing to do with the dangers,
addictiveness or other qualities of those drugs compared to the prohibited
drugs.

There are a number of excellent groups in Texas. Visit http://www.dpft.org
as a starting point. Also watch for a new group Texas Network of Reform
Organizations based in Austin. Also NORML has a chapter in Texas.

This July 22 there will be a vigil in Tulia, Texas on the one year
anniversary of the unjust arrest and incarceration of half the black men in
Tulia. If anyone is interested in participating contact me at zeese@csdp.org.

Re Zimmerman, he is playing real politics and winning. Unfortunately,
voters are at the early stages of waking up to the failure of drug
prohibition and the harms it causes. Many have been committed to the drug
war for a long time. They are not able to reverse themselves and face
ending prohibition, they still want sanctions but realize jail is not
productive and very expensive. It will be our job to educate the public so
that people like Zimmerman can be politically successful in ways that we
like. He is pushing the envelope as far as the public will accept.

Kevin Zeese: You are right, tobacco and alcohol would meet the definition
of the CSA for Schedule I drugs, but Congress specifically expempted those
drugs.

Regarding equal protection that is really focused -- in current law -- on
racial and gender discrimination.

Yes, I am a lawyer.

Kevin

Matt Elrod: Kevin,

What are your thoughts on rallies and public protests to bring about change?

Matt

Kevin Zeese: There is a role for rallies and protests in bringing about
change. It should not be our preeminent strategy or our dominant one but it
is important to publicly show our displeasure with the war on drugs.

We need to make the end of prohibition enforced by the war on drugs an
issue people vote on. People in the streets shows this is an important
issue for people.

November Coalition has an excellent demonstration project -- vigils in
front of courthouses. Visit http://www.novembercoalition.org to get involved.

This summer there will be two important demonstrations that I am aware of.
I mentioned the Tulia Freedom Ride on July 22. Also, there will be a
demonstration in Philadelphia in August (11-15) during the convention of
the American Correctional Association meeting. People interested should
contact me at zeese@csdp.org and I will put you in touch with the organizers.

Kevin

maura50 Do you have any comments on the recent applications of the
"crack-house" laws to night club-owners and promoters in cities like New
Orleans?

Kevin Zeese: Crackng down on dance parties, also known as raves, shows the
absurdity of the drug war. Escalation to the point of banning dance
parties, and twisting laws meant for something else in order to accomplish
that, shows the desperation of drug warriors. They do not know what to do.

A more sensible approach to raves is the Dutch approach. Making sure drugs
are what the sellers clam so that users do not get hurt, making sure water
is available to avoid dehydration. A good group working on this issue is
DanceSafe.

Richard Lake: The William Moses Kunstler Fund for Racial Justice has just
completed work on a 23 minute documentary about the Tulia drug sting. The
video is a shocking look at the collateral consequences of America's racist
drug war. To see "Tulia, Texas: Scenes from the Drug War" in real media
format go here: http://www.soros.org:8080/ramgen/tlc/tulia.rm

News stories are at http://www.mapinc.org/tulia.htm (Tulia, Texas)

Matt Elrod: That would be http://www.november.org/ for the November Coalition.

I don't hold your being a lawyer against you :-)

To what extent do you think the U.S. is influenced by other countries and
visa versa?

Kevin Zeese: MGreer points out an excellent video. There have been a lot of
articles written on Tulia. You can find them by going to
http://www.drugsense.org and going to news section and searching their
archives of news stories.

Kevin

sinverguenza28 MAP Gods walk amongst us. Together with the Mighty Zeese we
shall end the American Inquisition.

dswmsw0 Hi Kevin, I'm interested in hearing your views on the "treatment
instead of incarceration" initiatives and their overall effect on the war
on drugs. Do you think it will slow down the movement, as the public may
perceive that one of the major issues is resolved?

Richard Lake: The correct URL for The November Coalition is

http://www.november.org/

And check out their "A CANpaign for Freedom" !!!

http://www.openthecan.org/

Kevin Zeese: Thanks for correcting the URL. I am typing fast.

Unfortunatly, other countries are influenced more by the US than vice
versa. We carry a lot of money and countries need to be friendly with us to
survive.

The US is impacted by the Dutch experience, that is why drug czar McCaffrey
visited Holland and misrepresented the facts about their program. More and
more European countries are going Dutch.

In South and Central America more and more leaders are speaking about
legalization. No doubt this scares US leaders.

When countries start to act on their reform rhetoric the US will take note.
Support for the drug war is a mile wide and an inch deep. Support is
getting thinner and thinner. Pressure from the outside will make a
difference, especially if people in the US keep up their pressure tactics.

Dean Becker: Many think I am off base when I state that victory is just a
day away. A day when we all declare "enough is enough" and inform our
congress critters of the same. How far off base am I Kevin?

Kevin Zeese: Dean:

As Kurt Schmoke, the former Mayor of Baltimore, says: "reform is a marathon
with hurdles." I agree with him. We have a ways to go, but I am very
hopeful that I will be surprised. If so, I am ready for a sprint.

suhuben Hi Kevin, It's Susan in Olympia Washington. What can we parents do
whose children have died from drugs or drug related suicide to get people
to listen to the truth about the drug war? I have contacted some media in
Olympia & Seattle & can't seem to drum up any interest. Also, I have heard
many parents (like me) are getting behind the pro drug war folks saying
marijuana was a gateway drug & responsible for their deaths. We know that
is not true, & I feel so sorry for these parents who are being led down a
path of futher destruction.

Kevin Zeese: Susan:

Parents who have lost a child to drug abuse or overdose need to start to
speak out against the drug war. The war on drugs does not protect kids.
Indeed, it does more to harm them than help them.

Illegal drugs are more easily available than regualated drugs for our kids.
Treatment is less available. Money is wasted on law enforcement and drug
war propaganda while child care, after school programs and summer programs
go unfunded. Kids are told lies about drugs in school drug education. They
are not told what to do when there is an overdose because we do not want to
admit that half of US High School students gradate having tried an illegal
drug.

Parents speaking up is very important. They could become our most powerful
spokesperson. If you are a parent in this situation visit
http://www.familywatch.org and get involved.

dswmsw0 Hi Kevin, I'm interested in hearing your views on the "treatment
instead of incarceration" initiatives and their overall effect on the war
on drugs. Do you think it will slow down the movement, as the public may
perceive that one of the major issues is resolved?

Kevin Zeese: Regarding the treatment instead of prison initiatives, I
discussed this early in this exchange but to summarize, I am concerned
about the negatives of coerced treatment (go to http://www.drugwarfact.org
and look at drug courts for a summary of what concerns us) but I believe
these are a small step forward that we can turn into a bigger step if we
keep the pressure on for more change.

Unfortunately, change does not come in giant leaps. It comes in small
steps. People fear change -- in their personal lives and in policy -- so
things never go as fast as they should.

Tom Barrus: Kevin Zeese: wrote:

"You are right, tobacco and alcohol would meet the definition of the CSA
for Schedule I drugs, but Congress specifically expempted those drugs."

Actually a case could be made that alcohol is a schedule II, but tobacco is
definitely a schedule I.

"Regarding equal protection that is really focused -- in current law -- on
racial and gender discrimination."

Yes, but how can the government tell us it is upholding the Equal
PROTECTION Clause, by "protecting"us from cannabis, which causes no deaths
when used, while failing to "protect" us from tobacco and alcohol, the
number one and two of ALL hard drugs?

How can the government get away with exempting the number one and two hard
drugs from the drug laws and claim with a straight face to be fighting "drugs"?

Kevin Zeese: It is amazing what politicians can say with a straight face.

donaldway Is it wrong to talk about some of the more controversial aspects
of the War on Drugs in forums such as this?

For instance, the allegation that the government terminated research in
1974 that showed that marijuana was effective in treating cancer, then
later banned all research into marijuana and cancer, and then finally told
colleges and universities across the country to destroy all records and
evidence of such research.

The potential consequence of this if it is true is staggering, but many
feel the story is so far out there that it can only hurt the cause.

Yet, it is stories like this that best demonstrate why the War on Drugs is
so evil!

Kevin Zeese: Donaldway -- nothing is off-base here. I think those stories
need to be told.

The medical marijuana issue shows how extreme drug warriors are. They do
not pursue research that shows marijuana can save lives, reduce pain and
help the seriously ill; the feds try to undermine votes that protect the
seriously ill. They claim the drug war is to protect health and then they
undermine the doctor-patient relationship and deny access to medicines that
are inexpensive and helpful.

The medical marijuana issue, while a narrow issue, demonstrates the drug
war is a fraud led by extremists -- very unAmerican.

sinverguenza28 Should I have the right to smoke the dried-up skin of an
hallucinogenic cane toad in the privacy of my own home?

Kevin Zeese: My view of the drug laws is that people should not be punished
for what they put into their own bodies. It is important in a free society
to have a right to control your own consciencousness. If you do not have
the right to control your own brain, are you really free?

The government role should be to make sure that accurate information is
available; make sure health services related to drugs are available like
any other health service; and law enforcement should get involved if drug
users endanger others. Drug use should not be an excuse for stealing
property or hurting other people.

Police should not be at the center of drug control, they should be at the
edges. At the center should be prevention, eduction and treatment -- in
addition drug laws need to be consistent with the American tradition of
limited government and maximim individual choice.

Mark Greer: Am I correct in assuming that there are no drug war supporters
tuned in or at least that, assuming they are monitoring, that they are not
willing to jump into the fray?

This is really pretty typical in my experience but in either case it seems
a further indictment of the weakness of any case for supporting the drug war.

Tom Barrus: Kevin, wouldn't you say that Judges Rehnquist, Scalia, and
Thomas are guilty of violating federal law:

US Code : Title 28, Section 455

Sec. 455. Disqualification of justice, judge, or magistrate

* (a) Any justice, judge, or magistrate of the United States shall
disqualify himself in any proceeding in which his impartiality might
reasonably be questioned. * (b) He shall also disqualify himself in the
following circumstances: * (1) Where he has a personal bias or prejudice
concerning a party, or personal knowledge of disputed evidentiary facts
concerning the proceeding;

since the three justices of the supreme Court are recreational tobacco drug
users and they were involved in a case that sought to determine whether or
not tobacco was a drug?

Isn't this grounds enough to impeach them?

Kevin Zeese: Tburrus, I don't think those are ground to impeach them.

They are not very worried about conflicts of interest as we saw in Gore v.
Bush -- one justice had two sons working for the law firm handling the case
for Bush (their firm and they certainly profited from their fathers
ruling); another justice's wife was working for the Bush transition team.

The Supreme Court has lost a lot of respect in the last year.

Dean Becker: Recently there have been several TV programs which have shed
brilliant light on the harms of prohibiton. Do you feel the broadcast media
is beginning to see the light?

Kevin Zeese: The media has made a lot of progress in recent years thanks to
the efforts of many reformers.

Re Colombia, the drug war is often an excuse to do things the American
public would not accept it they were done for the real reasons. It seems
very likely that the drug war is an excuse for other economic and political
interests in Colombia and not the Andean Region.

Matt Elrod: If you were in charge, what regulatory model would you propose
for cannabis, other currently illicit drugs?

Kevin Zeese: Re cannabis policy, regulatory model -- I would propose that
cannabis be treated like alcohol. My view is cannabis is less dangerous
than alcohol, maybe even less dangerous than caffeine but politically I
think the furthest you could go with cannabis would be the alcohol model.
However, the US public is not ready to accept that yet. So, in the shorterm
I would advocate no more arrests for marijuana users, allowing personal
cultivation and allowing non-profit transfers.

Dean Becker: I hear so much being said about the rave drugs being so
dangerous. Is this true and if so, how so?

Kevin Zeese: Re rave drugs, the primary drug is ecstasy. The biggest
problem with ecstasy is that it is unregulated and as a result the ecstasy
market is one of the most adulterated of all drug markets. People have no
idea what they are getting.

We summarized this and other issues we are discussing as part of our
national advertising campaign. Visit http://www.csdp.org/ads/ to view the
ads. The ecstasy ad involved consensus of government researchers, private
researchers, leading writers on ecstasy and advocates for harm reduction
approaches to the drug so it is the best information available.

sinverguenza28 Back to Matt's question: Do you expect a trickle down effect
from Canada if they decriminalize marijuana (which seems to be a very real
possibility)? Would it make sense to dedicate US drug policy reform
resources to our neighbor?

Kevin Zeese: Canada is an important country because it is a neighbor. It
was important in the ending of alcohol prohibition and if they move in the
direction you describe it will be an important country in ending the drug war.

There are not enough reform resources, even though budgets are growing. I
find it amusing when drug warriors claim we are a wealthy legalization
lobby. I know in working with reformers across the country that most of the
work done is by volunteers. I would take the ONDCP PR budget over the
budget of all the reform groups combined. Of course, the drug czar's office
is not even one of the biggest and every sheriff and local police office
has a PR budget, as does every state and federal agency profiting from the
drug war.

We are outgunned, yet we are the ones making progress. It is interesting
that such a well-finacnced and powerful opponent is fearful of our efforts.

Every time we make a convert we keep them. The drug warriors are losing
supporters every day.

Mark Greer: Re workable alternative drug strategies:

Kevin was one of the key designers of the Effective National Drug Control
Strategy. http://www.csdp.org/edcs/

I use it regularly when I am doing talk shows or whatever and have only a
brief time to answer this complex question.

Mark

Richard Lake: Folks who want to help reduce the harm caused by the fake
drugs pushed at raves should consider helping DanceSafe
http://www.dancesafe.org/ which, at risk of being busted, conducts tests on
drugs at many raves!

sinverguenza28 What do you think of the cannabis vs. marijuana debate, i.e.
is there a politically correct word choice within the reform movement :)

Kevin Zeese: Words are important, but I don't think the cannabis vs.
marijuana word issue is all that important. Most of the public probably
does not know what cannabis is so it may lead to confusion in the conversation.

Matt Elrod: Okay, what regulatory model do you picture for MDMA? Do you
think MDMA should be legally available at raves? Age restrictions or ...

Kevin Zeese: It is not a coincidence that ecstasy became popular at the
same time that we raised the drinking age to 21. I expect ecstasy was for
many youth a substitute drug.

Regarding how to regulate ecstasy, my answer earlier about drugs generally
covers it.

Regarding age restrictions, we need to be very careful. I am not convinced
that raising the drinking age to 21 was a positive policy change. In
addition to drug substitution issues there is also the problem of binge
drinking which increased when we raised the drinking age.

We need an age of majority -- when people can vote, go to war, possess a
gun, possess drugs (including alcohol and tobacco). Our failure to treat 18
year olds as adults is causing problems not solving them.

This is not to say I am unconcerned about adolescent drug abuse. I just do
not think criminalization of youth is the best way to prevent abuse. In
fact, it has made drug abuse among youth a more difficult problem to deal with.

groutman Marijuana is a relatively harmless drug and almost anyone agrees
with this. What is your stance on drugs such as methamphetamine which seems
like little more than a slow and anti-social poison? Should it be legalized
as well?

Dean Becker: The Wickersham Commission was the formal turning point for the
end of alcohol prohibition. What's the chance, how can we get the
government to take a similar step to end drug prohibition?

Kevin Zeese: A commission is a very likely step toward the end of drug
prohibition enforced by the drug war. Many controversial issues, especially
those where politicians have built careers on the mistaken policy are
reversed by commissions.

More important is for reformers to develop into a voting block that votes
on the drug war. Politicians need to pay a price for their support of the
drug war. When we start unelecting drug war proponents they will take
notice and figure out how to get themselves out of the mess they have created.

We need to build political pressure, be politically active, attend
community meetings where politicians are speaking and put them on the spot
in public.

Kevin Zeese: re methamphetamine, it is a problem made worse by prohibition.
Unregulated manufacturers endanger neighborhoods and the product they
produce is more dangerous than it would be if it were part of a legal market.

Our drug war in the Andes could end up spurring the meth market. If we are
successful in impacting the cocaine market meth will be a natural
substitute drug -- produced domestically so there are no borders to cross,
less expensive than cocaine and more dangerous. We will be able to point to
this as another example of the drug prohibtion making the drug scene more
dangerous.

When we get to a regulated market -- and that is not on the political radar
screen right now -- we will need to come up with a policy that deals with
all drugs (including currently legal drugs) more sensibly. There will be
different restrictions, perhaps different tax plans and different
distribution methods for various drugs -- we need to come up with some
basic rules and then come up with specific approaches to each drug.

But making meth illegal is not helping anyone. Like other prohibitions, it
makes things worse for most.

Matt Elrod: I understand Gov. Johnson's reform supporters were re-elected
by comfortable margins. Do you think the "third rail" of drug policy reform
still exists?

Kevin Zeese: The third rail of drug policy politics is getting weaker all
the time. If a politician has the time to make his/her case on reform the
public will support them. A politician who runs on a "make health, not war"
drug policy stand will have the support of the public.

richard1028c A commission is a great idea, but keep in mind the net effect
of Nixon's commission on marijuana and Reagan's Grace Commission--they
generated reports and findings, but no substantive action was taken on
either recommendations.

Kevin Zeese: Debating the specifics of a regulatory model is premature. At
this point the public is ready for the following:

1. Investing in our youth -- e.g., after school programs, to prevent
adolescent abuse.

2. Making treatment available like any other health service. This would
include non-abstinence based programs like methadone and other opiate
maintenance as well as non-drug issues like job training, sexual abuse
counseling, GED programs. Also AIDS prevention among drug users should be
part of an effective public health approach.

3. Restoring justice -- end the racial unfairness the pervades the drug war
- -- from comunity and racial profiling to racially unfair sentencing;
restoring discretion to judges by ending mandatory sentencing.

Even some of the above pushes the political envelope.

When we get to the point of a regulatory model being debated there will be
a lot of ideas thrown out, alot of compromise and a lot of learning by the
public and politicians. It is politicall too early to pick a regulatory
approach now. We should make the point that prohibition makes things worse
and we need a non-prohibition approach.

Kevin Zeese: Commissions are often ignored. That has certainly been the
experience in the US with drug commissions, e.g. the Shafer Commission of
1970s and the National Academy of Sciences report: An Analysis of Marijuana
Policy in 1982 (recommending immediate decriminalization of possession and
experimentation by the states with regulation of sale).

However, when the political time is right a commission can be very helpful.
Even the Shafer Commission, which was appointed by Nixon but rejected by
him as well, led to decriminalization of marijuana at the state level -- 11
states covering one-third the population were decriminalized while 33 other
states passed laws erasing arrest/conviction records of marijuana
possession cases. So, even when the feds rejected the report, it still led
to major reforms and educated the public.

Dean Becker: If what I read/understand is correct, then the impetus for
change will have stronger impact when Canada, Europe, Mexico and the South
American countries move toward legalization. If you could pick a leader
from these countries to speak with us here on the forum, who would you choose?

Kevin Zeese: The most important international leaders are the president of
Mexico and prime minister of Canada because they are right on our borders.
It would also be useful to hear from Colombian officials who are not afraid
to oppose the US drug war in the Andes. Also some knowledgeable people in
Holland and Switzerland -- since those countries have the most sensible
policies -- would be useful.

suhuben Kevin, Thankyou for this forum. I have found the media does not
want to do a feature on the drug war from the perspective of a grieving
mother. I will keep asking until someone listens. I do not want anyone to
have to suffer the way my son did with his addiction & death. I am tired of
people assuming we & he was a second class citizen or lower. The drug war
has claimed too many beautiful, sensitive, much loved children. I am damned
angry about the riteousness, finger pointing & whispers from those who
believe my son & others deserved to die for their "sin". It is still
happening, I want to scream! Susan

Kevin Zeese: Susan:

Thank you for speaking out. I am sure the media will listen once mothers
get organized. I think women are among our most important spokespersons.

We have a very screwed up policy when it comes to kids and drugs. There is
a lot of confusion and inconsistency. We hand out Ridlin like candy and
claim our schools are drug free! We epxress zero tolerance for drug use in
our schools so that when kids start to experiment and get caught they are
denied after school activities, suspended or expelled. All three of those
punishments mean the youth will have more free time, more boredom and
therefore is more likely to get involved in abuse.

suhuben My son died because he tried black tar heroin, it killed him. If he
could have gotten it legally, from a known source, with a known dose he
might have been able to lead a normal life. If the people with him weren't
afraid of incarceration they could have called for help, they did not
because they both had criminal records for drug convictions. If, if, it
goes on & on. I wish I had known he had returned to heroin, if I
had,believe me I would have gotten it for him even if I had to go to the
streets & face arrest. He suffered miserable with his addictions. Susan

celaya Kevin

Both Canada and Mexico have expressed their concern over the U.S. reaction
to their reforming of marijuana laws.

Would it be helpful if Reform organizations were to establish a
relationship with those leaders and promise our support in the event of any
such reaction by our "leaders?"

Kevin Zeese: We need to show support for political leaders, domestic and
from outside the US, who speak in favor of reform. We need all the allies
we can get and we need to let politicians know they have new friends
because of their support for reform.

sinverguenza28 How come the reform movement does not do more to expose the
racist origins of the drug war, i.e. the cultural roots -- consider the
racist outcomes. Is it not viewed as an effective strategy, the learning
curve too great, or perhaps the media is not receptive?

Kevin Zeese: Thank you for bringing up the race issue, it is among the most
important aspects of reform.

Race is a major problem in the US and one made worse by the drug war.
Expressing this fact consistently and widely not only helps to organize
minority communities, especially Black and Latino, but also the white
community. Most whites do not want to see the US as a racially unjust society.

We need to speak not only to the rascist roots of the drug prohibition but
also on the racially unfair impact of current policy. We provide alot of
the facts related to race issues at http://www.drugwarfacts.org.

Tom Barrus: Why can't the average people on the street see how thoroughly
evil and immoral the drug warriors and the federal government are with
their hypocrisy about drugs, especially tobacco and alcohol? Don't people
know that tobacco is a drug like coca, only more harmful? Don't people know
that alcohol is a drug like opium, only more harmful? Or, is the average
person not ignorant, but too stupid to understand facts?

Kevin Zeese: This will be my final answer, thank you all for participating.
I enjoyed it.

Regarding the immorality of the drug war, this is a very important point.
The drug war is on the side of: - empowering international drug cartels; -
empowering drug gangs; - empowering the heaviest drug abuser in the school;
- - encouraging corrupt police; - encouraging loss of civil liberties and
constitutional rights; - perpetuating racism and indeed heightening it; -
making drug easily available to our youth; - undermining urban economies; -
creating an unjust justice system; - spreading HIV/AIDS, Hepatitis C and
other deadly diseases; - denying medicine to the seriously ill.

There is not much to like about drug prohibition enforced by the war on
drugs. This is one of the most important issues facing the US and the
world. I hope people will get informed, get involved and get active. We can
end this policy if we work at it.

Dean Becker: These Forums are getting to be like an elixer.

Thank you Mr. Kevin Zeese!

Tom Barrus: Kevin, thanks so much for joining us in this stimulating
conversation!

Where there is life, there is hope.

celaya Kevin

Thanks so much for coming.

I consider the work you are doing the most important one of our times.

Count on our unequivocal support!

Richard Lake: Thank you, Kevin, for joining us. Undoubtedly there were many
more lurking than asked questions.

It is just super to be able to chat with knowledgeable reform leaders!

We are looking forward to your DrugSense Chat!

And thanks to Dean for making these chats happen!