FORUM SCHEDULE:

Sunday, July 1, 2001 8 p.m. Eastern - 5 p.m Pacific: Kevin Zeese of Common
Sense for Drug Policy http://www.csdp.org/ joins us for his second chat in
the DrugSense chat room http://www.drugsense.org/chat/ The transcript of
his first chat is at http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v01/n1112/a09.html

Monday, July 2, 2001 8 p.m. Eastern in the NY Times Drug Policy Forum join
Keith Stroup, executive director of NORML http://www.norml.org Keith will
follow up with a chat in the DrugSense Chat Room on Sunday, July 8, 2001 at
8 p.m. Eastern

Future guests already scheduled in the series include Al Giordano, Steve &
Michele Kubby, Renee Boje, and Al Robison. See
http://www.cultural-baggage.com/schedule.htm for details.

TRANSCRIPT OF KAY LEE'S AND JODI JAMES'S VISIT TO THE DRUG POLICY FORUM

Tuesday, June 26, the NYTimes-com's Drug Policy forum hosted Kay Lee and
Jodi James from journeyforjustice.org. This discussion was the third in a
series organized by forum participants.

beckerd9 Kay Lee and Jodi James will soon sign in, each with a different
name so as to be able to specifically, individually answer our questions.

jfeier If I thought it would do any good, guys, I would lay down my life
for our version of human rights.

What would be the most martyristic way to die for our version of human
rights? What would be the best way to let the world know that human rights
is something worth dying for?

A hunger strike?

A walk across the line?

A public smoking?

But how many more would have to follow me before they get the point that we
WILL put ANYTHING we damned well see fit into OUR OWN BODIES!!!

jjames3 Greetings From Florida, Jodi and Kay Lee here.

beckerd9 Welcome ladies, glad to have you here on the forum.

maryjaneflores Hi, Jodi and Kay from Florida. Greetings from Houston.

beckerd9 jfier in post 24302 asks what will it take to turn this drug war
around. I too would like to know how many "extra miles" we will have to go.
Any ideas on what it will take?

maryjaneflores When and where will the next Journey for Justice be and Kay
tell us about some of your work in the prisons?

jjames3 We recently had the honor of attending a rally on behalf of
juveniles being treated like adults in the prison system. The rally and
vigil was held in West Palm Beach and a featured a variety of speakers from
the faith community. The idea that the current drug policy is effecting
every aspect of our lives is being obvious globally. Although juvenile
justice is not our main issue, the rally brought alot of unity.

kaylee3 whassuppppp?

beckerd9 Recently I noted that the head of Florida prison system is being
considered for a similar position in the Texas system. Is he the right man
for the job?

jjames3 Kay Lee is dashing to get on site at the other terminal. There has
been interest in Journeys in Indiana, Washington State and recently along
the eastern sea board. The spirit of the Journey is taking place nationwide.

beckerd9 Hi Kay Lee! Whupped any prison guards today? ;)

kaylee3 Kay Lee here. Whew!!! Have I whupped any guards today? Everyday!

kaylee3 Michael Moore has been the secretary of "Corrections" here in
Florida for 2 1/2 years. He's looking to go back to Texas, leaving one big
mess in Florida.

beckerd9 Perhaps you could hit the high points for us, what's a typical day
or week like for you ladies?

jjames3 One thing that I think is turning the drug war around is the
influence of other soveriegn nations. As the States are pressured by more
nations saying they don't want "our War", the tide is bound to change

beckerd9 Very true Jodi, especially with Canada and Mexico both getting
sick of this dirty war.

kaylee3 I roll out of bed into the computer chair and work until my head
hits the keyboard in the wee hours...

When I'm not doing a vigil...or Jodi isn't dragging me across the country
on one of her many exciting adventures.

Seriously, I spend a lot of time pouring over 500 or 600 inmates letters. I
answer the with open letters sent as often as I can gather the postage.

beckerd9 I know there are many problems you deal with, but what is the
primary problem caused by the state that prisoners must face?

jjames3 A typical week around here is anything but typical. Kay works
closely to monitor the situation in dozens of institutions and the legal
support network gets new calls daily from people in all sorts of legal
troubles. Currently we are redesigning our Know Your Rights Series, things
people should know when interacting with law enforcement and working within
the system. Tomorrow at 6am myself and a volunteer are going to Tennessee
for the 2nd Annual TN CAN rally in Sweatwater.

johnson29 Hello....I want to thank you all for spreading the word and
trying to make a difference. I too agree the laws need changing.

donaldway Hi Jodi, Kay Lee,

What kind of resistance, if any, do you get from the various law
enforcement officials?

beckerd9 What progress has FL CAN been able to make this year?

kaylee3 The primary problems prisoners in Florida face are medical care,
safety and hopelessness.

The budget cuts Michael Moore has instituted has reduced an already
impossibly overwhelmed medical staff; it has removed typewriters so
prisoners' access to the courts is threatened, the cuts have resulted in
menus that feed inmates on .40 per meal, and Michael keeps ordering his
staff to "Do More With Less!"

There's only so far you can go in cutting basic life needs before it is
cruel and unusual punishment. Of course you know, the drug war's mass
incarceration and resulting profitable prison system has caused these
problems.

jjames3 Usually the resistance we see the most is the puffed up kind. The
good old boy who says you can't do that here (whatever that may be and here
is). The Know Your Rights Series is so important because you can
non-aggressively assert your rights and keep control over the situation
with law enforcement. Here in our community now we have the passive support
of our law enforcement. The State law enforcements are another story entirely.

kaylee3 The resistance in Florida is awesome. If you love a battle, Florida
is the place to be. We've had to face them down, take 'em to court over and
over, and still they've constantly raised the budget to fight us. They say
we have "Soros Money" and it makes them feel better that a small group of
impoverished but determined people have raised this much ruckus!

donaldway It's an interesting feature of our society that while there is a
good deal of support for changing the drug laws, the plights of those
already snared seem to get less attention.

beckerd9 I know that the general attitude about medical marijuana has
undergone a great shift toward understanding in Texas after last years
Journey, what would you recommend we do to continue the progress here?

jjames3 Kay's work with the prisons is so important, how do we treat the
least of them...sort of thing. I subscribe to the 99 monkey theory, when
the last monkey got educated, the whole consciousness changed. Someone told
me recently that with one percent of our population in prison, our 99th
monkey is in jail. Isn't drug policy reform really just about finding a
better way to treat people?

kaylee3 My suggestion for Texas is to be seen! Get out there to
vigils....be at the rallys...meet each other...buy a billboard...

beckerd9 I heard some talk of a Journey to the Fed pot farm, is that still
on the drawing board?

jjames3 Joe Ptak is heading up a lobby effort in Texas to keep the momentum
going. Many of you might remember Joe from his early work in Pirate Radio.
We all know the steps to take, LTE,lobbying legislature, getting more
people to talk about the subject. I like wearing a contriversial anti-drug
war t-shirt out in public, a simple form of direct action and people talk
to me and get educated. The key is everyone finding a place they can be
affective and making a stand.

kaylee3 You treat the least of them as if you were going to run into them
after they get out.

Even drug offenders doing five years, if the place is as brutal as in
Florida, they become angry and worse. Gary Waid is a remarkable example of
a first time non-violent person sent to prison as a drug smuggler..

Model prisoner for five years...since he's been traded to Florida he grows
angrier and less respectful of authority, more sarcastic...

Prisons should be healing places if society really wants to be safer. That
back door is opening to let out people in worse shape than when they came
in the front!

It's totally dangerous to all of us! Especially with millions of people
going through that revolving door.

jjames3 We are actually taking part in a march in Mississippi on the 7th of
July. If Mississippi is in the offering, we'll know after that. Mississippi
would be a tricky direct action and would need to involve arrests. I am
hesitant to lead that sort of venture.

beckerd9 An internet buddy, Mike McIntyre summed it up pretty good: "would
we rather have a neighbor selling pot or live next to someone who just
spent 10 years in prison for selling pot?" For me the answer is pretty easy.

donaldway So let me get this straight, even though he's supposed to be a
Federal prisoner, the Fed's can pay Florida and stick him there in stead.
And the Feds save money, and Florida makes money, is that it?

kaylee3 We're not at all afraid of the direct action, but that would take a
mighty war chest. The arrests could be numerous and it has always been the
journey's motto, "It's not over till the last messenger is home."

jjames3 Privatizing prisons means everyone makes money.

kaylee3 Donald, although something like 35 states have the ability to make
prisoner trades between federal and state levels, only five have ever done
so, Florida and Texas included.

beckerd9 Except the taxpayers. 2 million is too many in the land of the free!

kaylee3 Gary came to Florida with 29 other model drug offenders... Traded
like a baseball card or a slave.

The first thing florida guards did was to strip them, line them against the
wall, and warn them while slapping them up side the heads that if they
"screw up in Florida, we take you across the road and beat you."

Being sentenced as a Federal Prisoner you'd think they would be obligated
to take care of him.

donaldway OK, I wasn't understanding all of this before... Basically
Florida has no reason to care how they treat these Fed prisoners because
the vast majority end up going to other states when they're released. So
Florida is basically interested in just keeping them alive, if that. This
is really disgusting... I understand now why you are protesting this.

johnson29 Ladies, during your journeys through Texas, how many law
enforcement agencies did you have to deal with?

jjames3 I recently read that two million children are being removed from
their homes due to abuse or neglect of children. BTW, any drug use is cause
for an abuse and neglect charge. We are seeing the idea that the Government
can raise our children better than we can and if we don't like it they have
a place for us too.

kaylee3 I am not mollycoddling prisoners here. I am demanding that the DOC
adhere to every DOC rule, state law, federal statute, and international
treaty on human rights and minimum standard of care for prisoners.

beckerd9 I know yall have many in depth stories posted on your website from
lots of prisoners. I would suggest the readers go there.

kaylee3 High, Johnson....How many, Jodi? I know every county we went
through and many towns had law enforcement check us out. Some did their
jobs professionally, but many were, lets say, overly aggressive in their
determination that our message be silenced. Especially in the prison towns.

jjames3 Regarding Texas Law Enforcement, I really don't have a count, we
state with state law enforcement and spoke to most agencies on down to the
local towns we traveled through. Huntsville/Bryan gave us helpful motorcade
officers, but the prison system sent a car to follow us out of town. They
actually had DOC set up survailence on us in Bryan. We introduced ourselves
in the morning to one very sheepish looking "covert" officer. He was a bit
embaraced we had blown his cover.

kaylee3 Gary Waid's very funny, very painful "Smuggler's Tales From Jails"
Plus the "Making The Walls Transparent" Project can be found from the
Journey for Justice website at www.journeyforjustice.org

donaldway I wonder how long it will be before they figure out they can send
prisoners to places like Mexico and save even more money.

beckerd9 I know that you sometimes serve as caregivers to medical marijuana
patients. Would you describe the difference for an MS patient, both before
and after medicine is taken?

jjames3 The encounter with law enforcement on the third day was rich. A car
in the caravan had silk pot leaves on the dash board. The police attempted
to pull the driver over, when the whole caravan stopped we met with the two
officers. They thought they had probable cause to search. We held them off
until the State Law Enforcement called them off.

jjames3 We work closely with one patient who has a related disorder. ALS or
Lou Gerhigs Disease. For her, muscle spams mean the contracting of even her
throat muscles. Most ALS patients are given 6-8 years to live and die with
a feeding tube or by choking. Our friend has been alive 14 years with the
disorder and still feeds herself. Making her laugh too hard sometimes gives
her problems, but after living with a terminal illness for 14 years, she
still has the health and quality of life to laugh that hard. It is a miracle.

kaylee3 The most remarkable visible medical evidence that marijuana is
medicine I ever came across was when I was hosted by Jacki Rickert in
Wisconsin.

Jacki has Ehlors Danlos Syndrome, among other things. This disease causes
loose joints...the ball falls out of the socket. Every bone in the body is
subject to displacement.

When it happens, it usually meant a three hour ambulance ride, where
doctors' first mission would be to relax the muscles and tendons around the
injured area, which grew so tense as to feel like steel cables. I've
watched them shoot her with muscle relaxers, then while one doctor held
her, the other put his foot in her armpit trying to pull the arm so it
could go back in socket.

When her arm went out you could see the caved in shoulder and the ball
buldging out halfway down her arm. While I was there, we'd both share
medicine, put on gentle music and low lights. I would hold her arm while we
shut our eyes, and she would tell me where to move. The muscles would relax
and the arm would move right into place.

beckerd9 When "Kat" gave her speech after using MMJ in front of GW Bushs
mansion last year, I was so proud of her speech and the dignity with which
she comported herself. The government will some day have to pay for their
abuses.

kaylee3 Yes, the abuses will have to end and history will have to be
recorded that these terrible things were done to so many people using a
beneficial plant for an excuse!

beckerd9

What can the average person do, minimal effort, that can make a difference,
to help end this hellish drug war?

jjames3 We start the process of making them paying by waking up to the
reality that they are still our servants. WE need to learn the formal
complaint process and use it. Anytime we have a negative encounter with law
enforcement, file a complaint. Then when police are standing before the
Judge and their credibility is being questioned, we can prove that they
have not been upstanding in the past. Officers files, including Internal
Investigations are available by filing a Freedom of Information Act. When
we start to prove a pattern of abuse, we can begin to weed out the rotten
apples.

kaylee3 Join an established group to keep informed, write letters to the
editor about what you learn, VOTE, adopt a prisoner. Donations of time,
equipment, cash, stamps...all these things keep the work going.

Get out and attend a prison vigil. PRUP is an umbrella for many drug and
prison reform groups and they encourage everyone to stand in front of a
prison on JULY 14th to draw attention to the injustice of it all!

beckerd9 That is July 14, not the 4th?

jjames3 The average person can make a difference by being responsible for
the gifts they are given. If you can write...write, if you know
bands...make music. Mostly just being responsible for their use, their
feelings about the drug war and responsible for sharing those talents,
feelings and stills with the rest of us. Ending the war is about getting
enough people educated and associated. Expect to see a "No Shame" campaign
to come out of Florida this year. The west coast has Pot Pride, Florida
says there is no shame in the way I think, feel, live and I'm not afraid to
put it on the table and talk about it.

kaylee3 JULY 14th this year, in front of prisons across the nation and many
in other countries who are aware of what's happening in ours, will stand
united for change.

It only takes two to have a vigil..

One to hold the sign and pass out information, the other to operate the
camera.

July 14th, 2001

jjames3 July 14th is the first Prison vigil I am really excited about. We
often have stood before prisons that are the extreme in in-human treatment.
On July 14 we will be awarding a gold star (and maybe a plaque) to one of
the better prisons in Florida. We believe that bringing light to the people
and facilities that are doing a good job is important too.

beckerd9 I will then try to gather as many as possible in front of the
Federal Detention center on July 14.

johnson29 Forgive me for my ignorance since I'm new to this. However I have
had several petitions pass through my mail box on here for a variety of
reasons. Have many been done on the interenet and sent to goverment
officials for drug reform? Do they help?

jjames3 Giving recognition to "good" prisons is a very good idea.

jjames3 When I spoke with the assistant warden at our Gold Star Prison,
Quincy CI, I asked him what he thought was the reason for the deterioration
of the prisons.

His answer was, "Mandatory Minimums that keep them here too long, and
sentencing people to prison time who could be better treated in some other
manner causes overcrowding that makes everything worse."

jjames3 People who are willing to talk about this issue are everywhere.
That small group of people that M. Mead refers to starts with dialogue. We
must multiple quicker than we allow ourselves to be divided. It just takes
one person willing to put it on the table. Thanks for the chat tonight, you
can find me in Sweatwater TN this weekend. If you aren't already associated
with a local group, borrow the CAN name and begin an association, we are
happy to help people begin their own Journey for Justice. In Drug Peace,
Jodi James

beckerd9 Just yesterday, I got a call from a man who was busted with 5
indoor plants. They are trying to get him to take 2 years or if it goes to
trial they will try to imprison him for 10 years. Is this the compassionate
conservatism Bush was speaking of before the election?

kaylee3 Johnson, petitions are numerous and I encourage you to always take
the extra time to sign them. Here's the way I see it...This is a David and
Goliath battle here. The powerful against the people. But Truth has a power
all its own and people know it when they hear enough of it. So, we do
everything we can think of to do. It's like kicking Goliath in the knees
until he falls.

beckerd9 It has been a unique pleasure to have you ladies visit this forum.
We hope you will drop in from time to time with a bit of advice.

Thank you Kay Lee and Jodi James!

donaldway Jodi and Kay Lee, thanks for dropping by!

kaylee3 I believe Bush's compassion stops at the powerful and elite. We are
producers and consumers and that's the only use we are in the eyes of
people like Bush. Right after the election the year marijuana ballots won
in several states, I heard a legislator on television say, "Do we really
want the people deciding what the law should be?" Compassionate
conservatism.....what a conflict in terms. True Compassion is not
conservative, but expansive as humanity...

kaylee3 Thank all of you for joining us. I hope we were able to open your
eyes a little more to the need for change. Johnson, Donald, and yes, you
too, Timothy have been gracious and I wish you all the best. I hope to see
you one day at your own rally. Dean, thank you. Goodnight everyone.