ANN MCCORMICK'S VISIT TO THE NYT DRUG POLICY FORUM

Ann McCormick - Seattle was incredible. So HUGE!!!!! It's great to be here
with you tonight. What do you want to talk about? Oh! This is Ann...

Richard Lake - Hi, Ann I posted the links to your pictures and the fest
site pictures a few messages back. Your Seattle pictures are looking fine
now. You could start by telling us a little about the fests? Glad to see
you home safely, you road warrior, you! Richard

dean_becker - Hi Ann! There's so much to talk about. First off, tell us how
Todd is doing, please.

zooneedles Hi Ann!

Ann McCormick The past two weeks have been a bit of a blur ;-) Todd is
hanging on and now looking forward to a November 2002 transition to a
half-way house. I would guess he'd be out by spring, 2003. He won the
appeal for the phone restrictions and can now make limited phone calls. His
visiting privileges should be restored early next month.

dean_becker Ann I just got through talking to Kevin Zeese, he is on the
road himself, dropping his kid at college. He will not be able to make the
forum tonight, but he sends his best regards.

zooneedles - Why didn't he have "visiting privileges", Ann? What kind of
bullcr@p is that? They afraid he is going to exchange clothes with somebody
and escape from the place? Zoo

zooneedles Yeah, I'll bet. After he hits a few of the keggers! Zoo

dean_becker - I'm curious to hear about the festivals too. Let us know what
it was like when you and Renee's family met with the McWilliams family please.

Ann McCormick - I'm glad to be back home. Exhausted doesn't even do it justice!

The festivals were energizing and a wonderful chance to catch up with
everyone.

zooneedles - Don't laugh but Renee looks a lot like one of my sisters. Zoo

Ann McCormick Last summer Todd requested to be put back on Marinol. They
did a drug test and found traces of cannibanoids in his urine. He was
placed in solitary during August and September and then had his visiting
privileges suspended for 1 year. He never got the marinol. It was a
no-brainer that he would test positive for cannibanoids. He had been taking
Marinol the entire time he was on bail.

dean_becker - Ann, Were the festivals tougher than the Texas Journey for
Justice? Please tell us of your memories of that 100 degree trek. Ann
McCormick - Renee is a sweet girl. I'm glad we could do something to bring
a smile to her face. Her mother and brother were so excited. It brightened
all their lives. We want to do more of that with CompassionateMoms. There
are a lot of people out there hurting because of these draconian laws.

Richard Lake - Ann's pictures from the Journey for Justice are at
http//members.home.net/amccormick/TexasJ4J2000.html

Ann McCormick Each project has a different energy. In Texas, we had a set
schedule to keep up on every day. Canada, once we got there, the 3 days
were wide open and we didn't have to move or drive anywhere. Seattle was
unique as an urban festival because of the beautiful backdrop of Puget
Sound and the sheer size of it.

zooneedles Man, that is some kind of bull$hit, Ann. What the hell has
become of their humanity? I guess they think they can be nazis like that
and don't have to answer to anyone. Even if he was tokin up a hayload, how
the hell does that deserve those kind of restrictions? No need to answer,
of course. It doesn't. They are just being immoral pigs and "good Christian
crusaders". Zoo

Ann McCormick - In Texas, we went from the hottest I have ever felt to
freezing! I think it was the night we got to A&M - the wind kicked up and
WoW! was it cold. We had been melting hours earlier. The Seattle weather
was beautiful. We had Washingtonians telling us all weekend that what we
were experiencing was NOT 'normal' Seattle weather. It was perfect, though,
absolutely perfect.

Ann McCormick - Good Christians? HA! The Radical Right Wingnuts hijacked
Christianity. There is a quote of Ghandi's that says it all, "I like your
Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your
Christ."

dean_becker - That's a marvelous quote Ann. Today I had a letter published
in the Jamaica Observer that finished with "Would Jesus, the Son of God,
send a man to prison for smoking a herb designed by God the Father?
Hypocrites!" Compassionate conservatives?.. my a$$!

Ann McCormick - When you look at the direction our nation is going, and how
obediently the 'masses' are being led to slaughter, you can see how things
unfolded in Germany in the 20s and 30s. Crimes are being created where no
criminal act exists, just as it was done by the Nazis in the 30s when they
were targeting the Jews. Just like the Crown imposed laws on the Irish
peasants that were selective of Irish and Catholic cultural ways, or the
young US government against the native people.

galan14 - Hi Ann -- Can't stay long, as Jerry and I are scheduled for a TV
interview tonight, but just wanted to stop by and say hello. I remember we
did that in passing in Albuquerque, saying we were going to get together
later, but we never did. Anyhow, I think we're making some progress, even
in this country, but what's happening in Canada and elsewhere around the
world is really encouraging. Keep up the good work and keep smiling! Cheers
/ Al Robison

zooneedles Ain't that the truth, baby?!!!

gawainekaye Hello Ann, thank you for being here! I so admire your work and
the sacrifices made by yourself and Todd. The fight for medical marijuana
is so obviously a fight for compassion and efficacy in treatment, yet we
see how heroes like Todd and Peter are persecuted by the drug warriors. And
the festivals are important not only in a fight for a legally-regulated,
age-restricted market in recreational drugs --they also have tremendous
social value immediately even if drug law reform continues to elude us in
the USA. The value of these festivals is the building of community and a
flourishing subculture that gives many people important dimensions of their
identity and friendships and life satisfaction. In other words, "the
pursuit of happiness" is good for the psyche even if its political effects
are hard to gauge.

As a dad and school teacher myself I'd like to hear your perspective as a
Compassionate Mom. How do you think children are affected by the drug laws?
Does the Controlled Substances Act and its state-level counterparts protect
children from dangerous drugs?

zooneedles -It isn't just the conservatives, Dean. You know that, man.

Ann McCormick - A story that has stuck with me and makes my blood run cold
every time I think of it was told to me, in passing, by a friend. She had
visited her son and his family in Texas and mentioned that her little 1st
grader granddaughter could not (As in NOT ALLOWED)use an opaque back pack
or book bag. Anything she carried had to be see-through.

They are creating a generation of people who assume that it is okay to have
your privacy invaded. It is acceptable. People who will never know another
way. They will never know what 'freedom' feels like. You don't miss what
you've never known. They will accept these restrictive, intrusive
government as 'just the way it is' -- THAT is sad.

lenzapleaps - Vote Libertarian for a change

gawainekaye - No zoo, its the Republicrats as a bloc. There are very few
politicians brave enough to take on the combined PR and lobbies of the govt
and private drug warrior interests. Not to mention the egos and reputations
of all the rent-a-brains at CASA and Univ of Maryland Center for Study of
Substance Abuse, etc --these think tanks churning out the ideological
justifications for the war on some drug users won't just watch NORML and
the Europeans prove them wrong. No, they'll throw everything they've got
into keeping the gravy train running, even if it means keeping drugs in a
street corner black market where kids are never asked for proof of age. Who
needs effective drug policy when you've got cynical moral posturing to keep
the money and careers flowing, public safety and health be damned. Every
dollar "wasted" on the drug war is PAID to somebody for a wage or service
or product. As the Grateful Dead sang, "one man gathers while another man
spills."

Ann McCormick - Kids shouldn't be taking any kind of unnecessary drugs,
chemicals, additives, etc...

The government is fairly schizophrenic when it comes to determining what
are acceptable risks and which are not. Where I really have a problem with
the drug war and kids (the schools, et al..) is the amount of
misinformation being spread around. The difference in our situation was
that we didn't lie to Todd. We didn't over glamorize it either, we were
very casual and matter of fact about things. It made it hard for him to use
substance abuse as a form of rebellion -- it wasn't an 'off-limits' topic
for us. Kind of took the kick out of it ;-)

zooneedles - Dean Corporations, forporations, let's lay it in the lap in
which it belongs... Our legislator's! Zoo

dean_becker - A compassionate and WISE mother, Ann.

dean_becker - I agree Zoo, except for one thing, who owns the legislators
(for now), lock, stock and barrel? Forporations.

Ann McCormick - The scariest thing is how many people really believe that
the War on SOME Drugs is really about drugs.

You've got to follow the money - and those roots are multiplying at
alarming speed. Think about how many industries rely on the drug war, how
much income to federal, state and local governments come from the drug war,
how many jobs are created?

Look at the private sector. Which industries would find hemp to be a major
source of competition.

Food, Fiber, Fuel -- and there is the biggie.. Petrochemicals -- OIL. What
would a clean, safe, non-toxic, environmentally-friendly alternative do to
oil interests?

dean_becker - Ann, If you could catch the attention of Bush, Ashcroft,
Hutchison, etal, what would you like to say to them?

zooneedles - I like Ann, she's a smart chick.

Ann McCormick - We cannot control the sale of anything on the black market.
I think we need to look at grapes for a model. I've never heard of cops
being confused between a wine grape or a jelly grape. Store managers aren't
confused between a bottle of grape juice and a bottle of wine. They know
which customer to ask for an ID. Why is it assumed that people suddenly
become incapable of making decisions when hemp/cannabis is involved?

maryjaneflores - Hi, Ann, Nice to see you here - I'm glad I didn't miss
you. I met you at the Journey for Justice Texas. If you remember me my real
name was Tami from Houston (I'm the one that was as short as you). I am on
someone else's computer so I don't know whether I will be able to get back
on before you leave so just wishing you and Todd well and hope everything
goes at or sooner than expected.

Ann McCormick - I don't know what anyone could say to them that would make
a difference. They KNOW this whole thing is a smoke screen (no pun
intended) - They KNOW - especially G.W. that marijuana is not the problem.
But that is our problem. Knowing that THEY KNOW and, yet, do nothing to
reverse it. It really makes you wonder where the real orders come from. Who
are those little hands in distant (or not so distant) lands pulling little
strings..? Who is really calling the shots. I feel sometimes like we are
all merely little pawns on someone's Monopoly board.

Ann McCormick - Hi Tami! I certainly do remember you! Write to me at
ann@compassionatemoms.org

gawainekaye - Its true Zoo, the lawmakers are the kingpins in this dirty
war. They can take a stand and create a genuine public health policy for
drugs, or they can continue the cowardly posturing that brings the mess we
have now. After all, a legally-regulated market will create NEW interests,
and these are unlikely to be as destructive of lives as the prisons and
goons now keeping the market on the streetcorners. So we need to get the
black ministers and soccer moms to see the true political economy of
prohibition so they can pressure the politicians who usually only respond
to the plutocrats and organized interests. The public seems too diffuse to
qualify as an organized interest, which unfortunately is all the
Republicrats seem to understand....

dean_becker - "They KNOW this whole thing is a smoke screen" Jack Herer was
on track with the Emperor correlation. We just have to get enough people to
look at the reality, then maybe the identity of the real emperor will
become obvious.

zooneedles - Ann "Who is really calling the shots. I feel sometimes like we
are all merely little pawns on someone's Monopoly board." We are all
individually guilty for allowing these laws to exist. We need only say in
mass, "no, no longer". As the Berlin wall fell, so too shall this evil,
then the next, then the next, until we find humanity. Now, I must roll me a
phatty. Zoo

Ann McCormick - There are so many conflicting messages in society -

1) NO ONE is above the law. (We suffered through 2 years of having that
reminder run non-stop - "No one is above the law, even the President.")

2) It is illegal to prescribe medicine without a license.

3) How many cops, probation officers, prosecutors, judges, legislators and
other bureaucrats have medical degrees? Aren't they practicing medicine
without a license? Isn't that illegal?

dean_becker - Ann, Please tell us about some of your plans and maybe some
advice on things we can do to help the drug reform movement.

Ann McCormick - Sadly, vast numbers of people are going to be squeezed
quite badly until the level of outrage surpasses apathy. G.W. may be the
catalyst to get that sentiment moving. He's establishing quite a 'squad' to
do his dirty work, isn't he? What was that... "Compassionate Conservatism?"
(Oh, dear, barf bag, please..)

dean_becker -Today a faction of the Methodist Church signed on to the UN
appeal for the end of the drug war. I intend to involve my local churches,
or at least attempt to bridge the gap. Our Truth is easily much louder that
the supposed truth of the drug warrior.

Ann, think I'll get slapped down?

Ann McCormick - Right now, aside from Todd's case, individually, my focus
is on CompassionateMoms.

CompassionateMoms is not so much an activist group as a support network FOR
activists. We're trying to add some sunshine and quality of life to areas
of drug war damage that falls through the cracks. We're concentrating on
personal needs - toy drives for the drug war orphans during the holidays,
an outfit for someone to wear to court, a grocery voucher for a family, an
airline ticket to visit a spouse being held many miles away.

Think USO or Red Cross of the anti-prohibition movement.

gawainekaye - Ann wouldn't it be great if court-ordered public service can
be performed through Compassionate Moms?

zooneedles - Ann, will you come visit us in this forum now and then? Zoo

Ann McCormick - Dean, I think, if you can get a good group of speakers to
go around with you to local church groups and do a solid, precise
presentation with facts, figures, stats and personal stories -- you would
be pleasantly surprised by the reaction.

People 'get it' -- the message seems to get screwed up on the way to
Washington DC..

Richard Lake - There is a website just about the public letter to the UN at
http//www.drugwarinjustice.org/

Lindesmith-DPF Sends Delegation to South Africa * A coalition of drug
policy reform advocates organized by The Lindesmith Center-Drug Policy
Foundation and the ACLU, will send a delegation to the United Nations World
Conference Against Racism in Durban, South Africa, next week.

They will be armed with an open letter to United Nations Secretary General
Kofi Annan, urging him to place this issue on the agenda of the U.N. To
date, the letter has been signed by more than 250 prominent celebrities,
academics, religious leaders, business leaders, elected officials, and
activists.

http//www.drugpolicy.org/news/race_conf.html

Letter to Kofi Annan, with signatories, translated into Spanish, French and
Portuguese http//www.drugpolicy.org/news/race_conf_letter.html

celaya - Hi Ann Bill Maher says in an article at CompassionateMoms
http//welcome.to/CompassionateMoms

Legalizing marijuana is that rare issue just waiting for a champion,
because most people in America either smoke, did smoke, or know people who
do, and they know prohibition is stupid. Framed correctly, this wall could
fall. The reason it hasn't already is sheer apathy.

After 30 years of feeling the apathy get thicker and thicker, many times I
wonder if this country is worth it any more.

Do you ever get that feeling? Renee is in Canada. Does she ever say the
heck with the U.S.? No one could blame her if she did.

Other countries are moving toward enlightenment while the U.S. digs in it's
heels to keep on persecuting people who harm no one.

Don't you think this country just might be about to self-destruct or become
a giant Saudi Arabia, and that the wisest move might be to get out before
it's too late?

Sometimes I think our optimism is just as misplaced as the disbelieving
Jews in Nazi Germany.

dean_becker - "come visit us in this forum" ..yes please. You are a ray of
light. Come back anytime, I ask all the Guests to visit the other Guests
when they can as well...Like Al did tonite.

Ann McCormick - Yes, I will come back and visit, now that I know how to get
in here ;-)

CompassionateMoms as a form of community service could be an interesting
goal to shoot for.

Our website is currently under construction
http//www.compassionatemoms.org/ -- but our mail list is at yahoo groups.
I'm looking for the URL right now..

Richard Lake - I recall asking Renee if she would return to the U.S. if all
the charges, etc. were for sure to just go away. Her answer was "No!"

While she would be willing to visit, she made it very clear that the
relative freedom and the kindness of the people where she lived was such
that she would not want to live anywhere else.

It is a shame to see some of our very best citizens voting against the U.S.
with their feet, or being forced to leave, like the Kubbys. But the thought
of moving has crossed my mind more than once. Richard

zooneedles - Celaya, the Canadians have shown in the past that they will
only take so many of us, heheh. Zoo

Ann McCormick - Marijuana prohibition would be something people would be
vocal about, had they not lumped it in with cocaine, heroin and other
things we know to be killers - and then made the bar so high. When I was 20
yrs old, if you got caught with Mj, you got scolded and they took the bag
- -- now they take your car, your house, your life savings, first born child,
years of your life, future earnings...

zooneedles - I have to go now, Ann. Birthday party for the kids. You are a
goddess. Zoo

Ann McCormick - Celaya and Richard, I have to admit, the thought has
crossed my mind as well. I found out that people with a parent or
grandparent born in Ireland can simply apply for their Irish citizenship.
It's there, waiting for you. And you do not have to give up your US
citizenship if you choose not to.

It's tempting...

But, right now, my government is holding my first born hostage --- for
GARDENING.

Maybe, when Todd is free...

Richard Lake - Ann, thanks so much for visiting here!

Ann McCormick - I'm still pretty tired from traveling, so I'm going to call
it a night, too.

G'nite all

It's been a pleasure chatting with you.

hugs ann

CompassionateMoms mail list http//groups.yahoo.com/group/compassionatemoms

Donations http//www.PayPal.com -- donations@compassionatemoms contact
webmom@compassionatemoms.org

old site http//members.home.net/amccormick/

http//www.toddmccormick.org/ --- http//www.reneeboje.com/ ---

http//www.drugsense.org/mcwilliams/

dean_becker -

Hugs right back. I am so proud of the degree of excellence our Guests bring
to this forum.

Thank you Ann!

celaya - Richard

Thanks for sharing that. Many times when I bring this up, I get accused of
being too negative and giving up on our country. But it is just possible
that the citizenry have lost their spirit and that the 60's was the last
dying splash of it.

To ignore that possibility is, to me, just as ostrich-like as those who
never question the drug war.

celaya - Ann But, right now, my government is holding my first born hostage
for GARDENING.

Understood.

Thanks for coming. Stay strong.

gawainekaye - Ann, thank you so much for the inspiration! I hope you feel
the love coming back at you for all your work and sacrifice. I'll write
some letters on Todd's behalf in the next few days. Love and health and
happiness and freedom to you and Todd and all you touch!