US: TRANSCRIPT: JEFF JONES'S VISIT TO THE NYT DRUG POLICY

Jeff Jones - - Hello This is Jeff Jones Executive Director of the Oakland
Cannabis Buyers' Cooperative. I'm online to answer questions and discuss
the medical cannabis issue.

Jeff Jones -- Is there any questions about medical cannabis?

Dean Becker - Hi Jeff! Glad to see you made it okay.

zooneedles. - Welcome Jeff.

Richard Lake - Welcome, Jeff! You are among friends here. You can make
rather long statements if you wish. You have probably noticed that so many
- - incorrectly -in the media said that the court said that medical cannabis
is a no-no rather than that the congresscritters said that in a law years
ago. Any comments? Richard

Dean Becker Jeff, In those states that do not have provisions for medical
marijuana in place yet, what advice can you give to those who are
nonetheless setting up a cannabis buyers club.

zooneedles. Good point Lake.

Jeff Jones - The medical cannabis movement is fighting and up hill battle
to reverse the Nixon's Administration stance on this plant. They decided to
bury the 1972 Schaffer Commission report that stated it should be rescheduled.

Jeff Jones - - I would be very careful in setting up a Buyers' Club outside
of a State that does not already have a law protecting its use, because of
the current federal problems (DEA).

Dean Becker Jeff, Can you describe how certain strains of cannabis are more
appropriate for certain medical conditions and other how certain strains
might be more suited to recreational use?

hairy2 - sorry late Jeff do you believe the Supremes decision helped the
cause?

Jeff Jones - It seems that only CA is getting attention of Federal
enforcement but I would still be very careful to stay small and be very
good at screening into your program only those that meet your standards.
You may visit my website to see our protocol for what a patients needs to
be qualified under State law here in CA.

tjaxon - Jeff, while primarily a medical user, I can't help but think that
even (or especially) medical users would be better off under a full
legalization model. No red tape, less hassle, more freedom of choice. Do
you support recreational use (or freedom to use), and do you worry that a
highly regulated medical system could impede overall legalization?

Jeff Jones - - There has not been a lot of in depth research on different
strains of cannabis exact effects on patients. Some groups have done
patient surveys to show the results of using different kinds of cannabis
affects their conditions different. Which leads me to believe there is
strong evidence to show this plant is therapeutic and is clearly wrongly
scheduled.

Jeff Jones -- I agree that most medical user would benefit more from
complete overhaul of the prohibition on cannabis.

grnchkrflg - Hello Jeff, LJ Carden here, Dr. Jay Cavanaugh's driver and
AMMA board member. How are you?

Sledhead - How long, Jeff? Is the end of prohibition near?

grnchkrflg I think that all medical users would benefit from an end to
prohibition And I wish all the media would have reported about your Supreme
case correctly I still get people being shocked because I still have a
small 'garden'. They believe that the Supremes stopped 215 in it's tracks.

Jeff Jones - I feel that the US Supreme Court ruling was a benefit to the
medical cannabis movement. In two ways; first it gave us expose of just how
out of touch our federal government is, it then sets up a no win situation
for the federal agents that they must enforce this law or leave it allow. I
believe bad laws are change and update when they are fully enforced. So
Bush may do us a favor by not fully understanding the current status of
support for safe medical access. Which is what the OCBC represents.

grnchkrflg Jeff, did you see today that the DEA burned a bunch of ditchweed
and called it $80M worth on the street?

Dean Becker Jeff, What's it like to stand before the US Supreme Court? Do
they treat you reasonably? Do the old guys nap half the time? What was that
like?

Grnchkrflg -It seemed to me that the Supremes were screaming at the
congress to give them some room to work with this plant and the sick who
need it.

grnchkrflg Good question Dean.

Jeff Jones -- I visited Canada recently and they seem on the trail of
changing their law around cannabis, maybe in the North will see change in
the next two years. Here it may be a while before those on Capitol Hill
wake up and see we are not hurting the public interest by help patients get
what they need to stay alive.

Rifraf11 - Jeff, Do you think its time to shift gears and put on a loud
strategy to challenge the court on prohibition ala Tom's ideas? It might
take some of the pressure off medical users, if the Feds are busy fighting
a stiff battle to toss the whole CSA.

Jeff Jones -- The US Supreme Court is interesting. They treated me like a
common member of the audience I was not allowed to take notes or sit with
my Attorneys near the seated Justices. I guess this is common place in this
court. I found the room to be cold from the recent Gore Vs. Bush ruling.

Grnchkrflg -Jeff did you see today where the DEA burned tons of ditchweed
and said it was worth $80M?

zooneedles. Jeff, did the bailiff tell you to spit out your gum? Zoo

Jeff Jones -- I can't comment exactly on what may be the best offensive but
what I can see we already got them running to protect what's (was) law.
Just look at the Jamaica and Europe as they start to loosen their grip on
control of cannabis. The Federal Government to me is the screaming kid who
is fighting to keep his toy from all the others to play with and seems not
to notice that everyone else can now see just how mean spirited they are.

Louking - This is from a CNN interview. The complete text is at:
http://www.mapinc.org/norml/v01/n1566/a08.htm

NOVAK: Just briefly before we take a break, Mr. Hutchinson, Plan Columbia
is putting a lot of American money and a lot of American effort into
Columbia to stop the narco-terrorists, the guerrillas supported by the drug
dealers. Can you look me in the eye and say that any of this has succeeded
in stemming the flow of drugs from Columbia?

HUTCHINSON: I can look you in the eye and say we need to give this a chance
to work. NOVAK: It isn't working now, though.

HUTCHINSON: Well, I think it is working to stop reducing the money that the
narco-traffickers gain. And I think it's starting to work to build and
strengthen a very old democracy in South America. The intent and
justification for our initiative should not be to stop the flow of drugs
coming to our country. I hope that's a side benefit, but that's not the
justification in my view for the Plan Colombia. We've got to strengthen
that democracy and their dependence to the narco-traffickers of the drug
money is what we're trying to reduce, hopefully as a side benefit to
America here.

I am nuts or did he just say the intent and justification of Plan Columbia
is not to stop the flow of drugs? Has there been a policy change? Are we
really in Columbia to strengthen their democracy by spraying the crops of
peasant farmers?

Jeff Jones - - No but they almost took my nice pen that I was using to take
notes on what may be the next challenge to the federal prohibition of
medical cannabis.

Dean Becker Jeff, the current focus of the OCBC is to train
patients/caregivers in how to grow their own cannabis, so are enough
blessed with a green thumb to take care of their own needs or is it a major
problem for some to grow enough to meet their medical requirements?

Jeff Jones - - I feel our involvement in South America has to do with
resources - not just drugs - that's the cause to allow us to insert our
army. We import more Oil from the South than we do from the Middle East.

zooneedles. Wow. Was that August 25th with the Hutch talkin that way?
Thanks for bringing that to our attention. Zoo

Jeff Jones - - Our mission here at the OCBC is to validate patients status
is consistent with the State Law giving them status to legally possess and
grow their own medicine. Not all patients can grow or want to grow, but
there is a growing population of patients in CA producing their own
medicine. I guess with the recent decision in NV all the patients there are
out of luck for a safe supply unless they grow it or get it from a safe
friend.

sledhead - See ya. Gotta run. Thanks Jeff

Aahpat -

S-304IS http://www.user1.netcarrier.com/~aahpat/s304is.htm

Currently in the U.S. Senate of the 107th congress and sponsored by Patrick
Leahy and Orrin Hatch; To reduce illegal drug use and trafficking and to
help provide appropriate drug education, prevention, and treatment programs

H.R. 1344 http://www.user1.netcarrier.com/~aahpat/hr1344.htm

To provide for the medical use of marijuana in accordance with the laws of
the various States Sponsored by Barney Frank.

H.R. 1978 http://www.user1.netcarrier.com/~aahpat/hr1978.htm

Major Drug Trafficking Prosecution Act of 2001 Sponsored by Maxine Waters.

The one thing that the Supremes did say was that the prohibition is in the
hands of the congress. The bills referenced above provide reform with ample
opportunity to confront our representatives in the congress and help to
form and move along these bills that will impact us. What is the leadership
doing to better focus the effort on the source of the prohibition, the
United states congress? Easy access for u.s. congress Quick-Email
http://www.user1.netcarrier.com/~aahpat/qes.htm addresses. Including
individual Senate Committee Quick-Email links pages. National Voter
Registration Forms http://www.fec.gov/votregis/vr.htm for both individuals
and voter registration drives and for most states at the Federal Election
commission THE CHIEF CONSTABLE'S DRUG REPORT, CLEVELAND, ENGLAND
http://www.user1.netcarrier.com/~aahpat/ukpol.htm Independent Voters
http://www.user1.netcarrier.com/~aahpat/iv.htm George Washington's Farewell
Address http://www.user1.netcarrier.com/~aahpat/gw.htm

Dean Becker - Jeff, the Presidents men are starting to say they will do
something about the MMJ movement though they seem pretty uncertain about
what that might be. Have you heard or seen anything of late that might give
us a clue as to what their future tactics might be?

Jeff Jones - - I know one thing for sure no matter how hard the federals
try they will not stop patients from using this plant as a medicine. Seems
governments for hundreds of years have been dealing with this very same
problem and none of them has solved it. The best report I've seen on
Cannabis regulations is the late 1800's Indian Hemp Drugs Commission. This
commission found that if a substance is going to be trade in communities
that it should be regulated and brought out from the underground, so that
all would benefit from the trading of such substances not just those that
are using it. They also said many other things that still very real today

Patient1 - George McMahon - Hi Jeff, what steps can those patients; not
well enough to grow, take?

Jeff Jones -- I never underestimate what some agents will do with our tax
dollars. But again the current admin. is left in the same spot that the
last president was which the more attention they give medical cannabis the
more they lost ground publicly to have a complete prohibition.

Grnchkrflg - I must go now, later all, Thanks Jeff, LJ Carden

Dean Becker Jeff, we have some doubting Thomas's that visit this site from
time to time that doubt that MMJ actually works, who doubt that it helps
sick people. I try to tell them of the miraculous things I have seen it do
for MS patients. Could you tell us some of the things you have seen it do
for MMJ patients please?

Rifraf11 - Does anyone know if the ruling against OCBC applies to a friend
growing a modest amount for a qualified patient?

Jeff Jones - - Patient's that are not well enough to grow on there own or
don't have space, need to find a very good friend that they can trust to
very carefully cultivate cannabis for them. That be said (easily)it is
sometimes very difficult to find that perfect one to do this, my advice is
be persistent and cautious. You can never be too safe about this process.

zooneedles. My God. Frank and Waters of all people are the only ones with
some kind of positive proposals. Where the hell are the rest of these
lawmakers? Zoo

Jeff Jones -- It hard to tell how the Supreme court ruling would effect
that this friend helping another patient. On face, it seems the federal law
is clear that all of this is illegal. But it wasn't until Tim Leary
Challenged the 1937 Marijuana Tax Act in 1969 all the way to the US Supreme
Court that that law was struck done by the High Court say it over step the
constitutional rights of Americans.

aahpat - zoo; Frank has been talking about med/mari for years and has been
marginalized for his efforts. Waters is single-handedly attacking the
premise of mandatory minimums and she is ignored, in my opinion, by the
reform movement. The drug war is 100% the United States congress. If we
want to end the war we have to confront the congress. 100%.

Patient1 - George McMahon - it would seem then most will be out of luck
till we get more done. Many will never get the chance to try under those
conditions. Keep teaching it is the difference.

Dean Becker Jeff, for those doubting Thomas's, could you describe some of
the benefits that MMJ can bring to a patients life?

Jeff Jones - - I find some of the most moving aspects of medical cannabis
use is it's ability to bring life back into patients who have had a very
poor quality of life. This is most pronounced in patients with terminal or
chronic and degenerative conditions. Some patients that get relief that
wound not other wise from western medicines have conditions like MS and
Lupus where doctors usually just give them more opiates that don't have
effect after just a short time.

Rifraf11 - Has there never been a case of a son or daughter, growing for a
dying parent, who was charged and either acquitted or overturned the
conviction at the Appellate or Supreme level? Isn't this precedent for at
least a family medical necessity exemption defense?

Dean Becker At last years Journey For Justice in Texas, I met a couple of
wheelchair bound patients with degenerative conditions. They were nearly
mute and very uncoordinated before using MMJ. After use, they could use
their hands for some tasks and their voices, though not loud were very
clear. I think the government lies, not to prevent use of MMJ, but rather
to have ways to steal our rights.

zooneedles. Jeff Some patients that get relief that wound not other wise
from western medicines have conditions like MS and Lupus where doctors
usually just give them more opiates that don't have effect after just a
short time. Cannabis and Oxy sound like a good set up to me. Oh, and Kratom
in the morning. Zoo

Jeff Jones - - I find it difficult and frustrating that we have to still
debate a finding from US Congress in 1970 to temporally place Cannabis into
Schedule I until we knew more about it. What happened to the update? Oh
yeah, I forgot that NIXON was at the helm then, it seems that the same
could be said for Bush

Dean Becker Jeff, we are lucky enough to have George McMahon with us on the
forum today. As you probably know, George is one of the 7 remaining Federal
Medical Marijuana patients, one of the invisible. Was there any mention of
these folks existence during the time in front of the Supreme Court?

zooneedles. Jeff, would you consider your visit tonight to be "a walk
through the tulips"? One of our regulars who couldn't make it tonight
thought that may be the case. Zoo

Jeff Jones - - Yes, George helpfully signed onto an Amicus Brief that you
can view along with other filings in our legal case at
www.druglibrary.org/ocbc , this seem to have some impact with the justices
but they seemed to feel they was a meritable reason that the program
application process had been closed.

Jeff Jones - - What do you mean "a walk through the tulips"

Jeff Jones - - I can only respond by saying that I have been involved with
hundreds of press interviews or piece gathering research calls. I feel the
press has been compassionate to those that are still suffering in our
communities, of course with a few exceptions like some of the more
conservative publications like the New Republic.

Patient1 - George McMahon - I thought the amicus brief might have helped
Jeff. Sorry it did not. We have filed another tho. so maybe this time it
will .

zooneedles. Gotta run, Jeff. Keep up the battle! Zoo

Jeff Jones - - No, this seems to be sometimes the general response from
groups that I speak to a real concern for understanding the issue. Once
they see what this is all about they become very charged that the
government is preying on those that are least likely to fight back. There
is usually comment or two that "the government could not have pick a better
person to pick on then Jeff Jones" It seems I promote the good aspects of
this debate allowing those that are open minded enough to draw their own
conclusions about medical cannabis and see there are far more harmful
substances that are available that should be getting the attention of the
authorities

Patient1 - George McMahon - most succinctly put Jeff. Another version of
pick the weak off first. As I see it. they either take toxic meds and
treatments to death or face arrest and suffering same fate anyway.

Dean Becker Jeff: "It seems I promote the good aspects of this debate"
..hear, hear to that. I respect what you do. I have great admiration for
your cause and your methods. Thanks for all you do Jeff. .

Jeff Jones - - George, I hope you keep talking and spreading the message of
benefits of your legal access to cannabis. It seems that every month I meet
someone who has ran into you talking at an event in the past. I hope you
understand just how special you are with the other patients that seem lock
out of the gates to medical relief

Dean Becker Jeff, when we can get the schedule fixed, we intend to bring
George on here as a guest, perhaps in late October.

Patient1 - George McMahon - You know my cut Jeff. I could not stop noticing
my peers plight! Thank you,

Patient1 - George McMahon - When I can stop long enough where a puter is
at. Right now typing with rt hand in cast.

Jeff Jones -- So, is there any more discussion?

Dean Becker I think you've answered all the questions at hand. I salute you
for the time and energy you devoted to us tonight. . Jeff Jones -- Did
something happen to your right hand George?

Patient1 - George McMahon - Broke Hand Jeff.

Jeff Jones - - I'm sorry to hear that George may there be better days ahead
for you. I will say in ending that it has been a pleasure being on the New
York Times Forum for Drug Policy and spreading the message that medical
cannabis does work and that Untied States Patients deserve better from
their government then the second class citizen treatment that is currently
being offered (this is still a free country). How can Canada's policies be
ahead of the USA. This is downright shameful. Keep fighting the good fight.

Jeff Jones, Officer of the City of Oakland for the Oakland Cannabis Buyers'
Cooperative PO Box 70401 Oakland, CA 94612, (510) 832-5346 Fax (510)
986-0534 www.rxcbc.org jeffj@rxcbc.org

Richard Lake - Thank You so much for being here, Jeff. Looking forward to
your visit, same time, this SATURDAY evening, to the DrugSense Chat Room at
http://www.drugsense/org

I think you will also find an interesting group of activists there! Richard

Dean Becker Ladies and Gentlemen, JEFF JONES! A true American patriot if
ever I saw one. Jeff, thank you so much!