DOPE DEBATE

ALBUQUERQUE - At a raucous debate Monday, frequently interrupted by applause
and sometimes boos, Gov. Gary Johnson and new Drug Enforcement
Administration Chief Asa Hutchinson butted heads over drug policy.

Johnson - who has become a nationally recognized advocate for radically
reforming drug laws - reiterated his belief that marijuana should be
legalized and that authorities should emphasize "harm reduction" policies on
the abuse of harder drugs, focusing on saving lives instead of making
arrests.

"Prohibition of drugs is doing more harm than the drugs themselves," Johnson
said.

Hutchinson, a former Arkansas congressman and former federal prosecutor,
stressed his philosophy: Enforcing drug laws is an important component in
combating the drug problem. Hutchinson, recently appointed to the position
by President Bush, stressed that legalization would lead to more drug
addiction.

"If we want to discourage drug use, how do we do it?" Hutchinson said. "Our
laws should reflect those values."

Although neither man budged from his basic position, Hutchinson agreed with
Johnson that it was unfair that under federal law a college student can be
denied a federal loan because of a past drug conviction - but not a murder
conviction.

"That's something Congress is going to have to look at," he said.

He also said Bush had ordered agencies to stop racial profiling in the
enforcement of drug laws.

Both Johnson and Hutchinson are Republicans. In the audience were two
Republican leaders on opposite sides of the issue - state GOP Chairman John
Dendahl, who backs Johnson on drug-law reform, and Johnson critic state Rep.
Ron Godbey of Cedar Crest.

The debate, held at The University of New Mexico, was organized by a
National Public Radio show, Justice Talking. NPR will broadcast the event
later this year. C-SPAN also videotaped the debate and will show it at a
later date.

The audience of about 300 seemed to have more Johnson supporters.

Godbey quipped after the debate, "If they'd have brought in drug-sniffing
dogs, that would have cleared about half the room."

However, both sides had their partisans. And despite pleas from the producer
of the radio show not to cheer or jeer, both sides in the audience became
vocal at several points in the debate.

At one point, drug-reform proponents in the crowd began booing Hutchinson,
who had just made a pointed remark about Johnson failing to convince the
state Legislature to decriminalize marijuana.

Although he did not scold the crowd for the outburst, Johnson took the mike
to say he appreciated Hutchinson's coming to New Mexico for the debate.

Justice Talking host Margot Adler said the only debate on the show that got
as emotional as the Johnson-Hutchinson square-off was one held in Florida
concerning the 2000 presidential election.

Early in the debate, Johnson, who admitted he was nervous, went blank while
making a point, saying, "I just lost my train of thought." Afterward he told
a reporter, "I was just thinking of about 15 things I wanted to say all at
once."

More than once Hutchinson brought up the recent arrest and extradition of
accused Colombian drug lord Fabio Ochoa, citing that as an example of
progress in the nation's anti-drug effort.

At this Johnson scoffed, saying other drug kingpins will rise to take
Ochoa's place. "Cutting his head off just creates 10 other heads," Johnson
said.

Johnson also said the federal effort to seize drugs being smuggled over the
nation's borders are "pissing in the wind."

"I believe that if the government were not involved at all, the problem
wouldn't be any worse. In fact, you might see more consistency in the
quantity and quality of the drugs and reduce deaths (from overdoses)."

Hutchinson, while admitting agents only seize a fraction of the drugs being
smuggled across the nation's borders, said drugs would enter "unimpededly"
if the government didn't increase the risk to drug traffickers.

Johnson said he favors regulating marijuana like cigarettes.

Hutchinson responded, "If you like what the tobacco companies did in
marketing to our teens and marketing to adults in selling their product,
wait till they get hold of marijuana cigarettes."

Hutchison tried several times to pin Johnson down on whether hard drugs such
as cocaine and heroin should be legalized.

Johnson wouldn't take the bait. All he would say was that the government
should focus on "harm reduction."

Hutchison said he favors a drug-court program in which nonviolent drug
offenders are placed in treatment programs - with criminal penalties hanging
over their heads if they do not comply.

Johnson argued that most marijuana-smokers do not belong in treatment. He
said marijuana is less harmful than alcohol.

"Ask anyone in law enforcement whether they'd rather go into a house where
everyone is smoking marijuana or a place where everyone is drinking," he
said.

Before the debate, about 20 drug-reform demonstrators lined both sides of
University Boulevard displaying signs with such messages as "Disband the DEA
Gestapo" and "There is No Justice in the War on Drugs."