TRANSCRIPT: JOSEPH MCNAMARA'S VISIT TO THE DRUGSENSE CHAT ROOM

Dr. McNamara: hi, this is Joe McNamara former police chief

Dr. McNamara: people ask given the wart on terrorism should we give up on
drug reform for a while. I sat no.

Dr. McNamara: the terrorists win if we let them change our goals. if our
nation had waged the war against terror instead of against drugs perhaps
the attacks could have been prevented.

Dean_Becker: Dr. McNamara, do you see any chinks in the armor of the drug
warriors, is now the time to attack their senseless drug laws?

hairy: doctor how do we start changing the body count.....so many victims
and so many corrupt law enforcement go unpunished

Dr. McNamara: we need to convince the politicians that no one should be
jailed because they have a certain chemical in their blood.

Dr. McNamara: making criminals of drug users demonizes and dehumanizes them
and creates crime. racism, corruption and violence and does not stop drug use

Pam: Doctor, I grew up in KC, I remember your name, you did a great job!

Dr. McNamara: Pam, many thanks it was a long time ago but we did some good.

Dean_Becker: Doctor, we are starting a cannabis club in Houston, we intend
to talk to the city council and mayor, would it do any good to inform the
policeman's union of our intent?

Dr. McNamara: working with the cops is great but you have to be patient not
attack or argue with them

Jo-D: good point, hard to do when you've had their guns pointed at you thou ;{

Dr. McNamara: i agree but when the local police support treatment and
needle sharing the programs succeed

Dr. McNamara: don't forget that from the day a cop gets his badge he or she
is indoctrinated to hate drugs and regard all drug users as people who
steal and commit other crimes. It is, of course contradicted by empirical
evidence. Bush, Gore, Gingrich etc. all more or less conceded early drug
use and Bill too. they all grew out of it but if they had been jailed
under today's laws they would have been career criminals

Dr. McNamara: we should ask cops why the drugs beer and wine etc are O.K.
but others get you put in a cage even though many do far less damage

Dr. McNamara: another good question for cops when they publicize a big drug
bust is whether or not it will lessen drug use in the community? Most cops
will honestly say no or just temporary

Dr. McNamara: so the next question is why put everyone in danger and lock
people up for long periods guaranteeing they will come out hardened criminals

Buster: Hi doctor. I'm Buster. I'm 11 yrs. old and a Boy scout. I have
someone helping me with the typing. I'm here to meet a requirement for
advancement and I didn't want to do DARE. Please tell me when it's ok for
me to ask a couple questions. Thanks

Buster: Thanks Since pot is illegal, shouldn't alcohol and tobacco be
illegal too -- or pot be legal?

Dr. McNamara: pot should be decriminalized tomorrow. it may be dangerous
for some but never killed anyone and no committed murder because they were
stoned on pot (unlike alcohol)

Buster: If only 1 illegal drug was legalized, which should it be and why?
Or, if most illegal drugs are legalized, are there any that should stay
illegal?

Dr. McNamara: we made a mistake in 1914. Until then drugs were legal. We
turned a health and social problem into a crime problem. As long as we have
Prohibition the drug war will cause more harm than the drugs do

Buster: OK thanks for being here and talking to me. Ill stay and watch you
guys

Dean_Becker: Dr. Do you think the warriors will ratchet up the drug war
because of the link with terrorism? And if so, what should we do to counter
their move?

Dr. McNamara: we should tell the world that the Taliban made a fortune
because drugs are illegal and used the money to attack the U.S. We should
oppose McCaffrey ridiculous attempts to equate drugs with terror.

Pam: Doc, I'm pleased to see our youth interested in learning the truth,
how do you think we should educate them without encouraging use at a young age

Dr. McNamara: tell them the truth. all drugs contain a certain amount of
danger including aspirin but education and respect for kid's intelligence
unlike DARE scares will help

Dr. McNamara: truth drug money has helped arm the terrorists

allan: Mike Gray last weekend said Interpol data showed as much of 1/3
terrorists funding is from illegal drug trafficking

Dr. McNamara: if drugs were legal terrorists would have a lot less bombs
and guns

Matt: It has been argued that the Taliban want to hook Americans on drugs,
much like Anslinger argued that the Chinese were doing the same.

Dr. McNamara: bull. Americans and all other cultures except the Eskimos
where it was too cold always used drugs

Dr. McNamara: should have been too cold to grow

Matt: The Eskimos used psychoactive teas -)

Dr. McNamara: and alcohol after we brought it to them

allan: Dr. McNamara- Is there a possibility of ever really engaging the
prohibitionists in a real public debate/discussion? And if so would you be
willing to be involved in a national level, public discussion?

Dr. McNamara: I have in many national discussions including with top
government and law enforcement leaders. some agree with me.

Matt: Grinspoon has been discredited for advocating cannabis reform, have
you been the victim of character assassination?

Dr. McNamara: we can't worry about character attacks they usually backfire
especially for me who came from a family of NYPD cops and served for 35
years in NYPD, chief of Kansas City, Mo. and San Jose, CA Even the cops
listen and sometimes years later or months later write or call tto say they
agree we must keep fighting for freedom

Dr. McNamara: John S WITH A CITIZEN ONLY WHEN THAT PERSON'S ACTIONS HARM
SOMEONE ELSE Stewart Mill SAID THAT THEIR GOVERNMENT IS JUSTIFIED IN
INTERFERING

kaptinemo: Doc McN, what would you say is the reform movement's Achilles'
Heel? What things in your estimation are we doing wrong?

Dr. McNamara: REFORM TAKES MANY DIFFERENT ROADS AND WE SHOULD ENCOURAGE ALL
EFFORTS TO REDUCE THE HARM OF DRUGS AND HARM OF GOVERNMENT'S DRUG CONTROL
EFFORTS

Matt: How do we reach out to LEOs?

Dr. McNamara: meet with them respect their views and tell them about
racism, violence and the needed for treatment you'll be surprised how many
will agree on some issues

Matt: Most LEOs are well-intentioned?

Dr. McNamara: remember the picture of those rushing into the World Trade
Center giving their lives to same others

allan: Dr. McNamara- we in the drug policy reform movement know how much
the truth/info we have at our disposal outweighs the lies, rhetoric and
propaganda of the prohibitionists. Our best far outweighs the team of
"experts" the prohibitionists could gather. Would you be willing to be a
participant in a large scale debate (possibly network TV?) involving folks
like G. Johnson, L. Grinspoon, C. Schaffer, E. Nadelmann, etc.?

Dr. McNamara: we all communicate and meet at conferences especially
Lindesmith-Drug Policy Forum In NYC which everyone should join

Richard_Lake: TLC-DPF website is www.drugpolicy.org

Dr. McNamara: i apologize to some of you because i"m getting only part of
your questions

Dr. McNamara: Lindesmith DPF has a website and is a major source of info
Ethan Nadelmann is our CEO and Ira Glasser our Pres.

Ben_Masel: How will Federalization of law enforcement in wake of WTC impact
Drug enforcement in practice?

Dr. McNamara: I oppose it. The feds thru FAA were in charge and our
intelligence agencies apparently spent more times getting info on drugs
than terror

kaptinemo: perhaps because it might be EASIER to roust "druggies" than it
is to chase murderous fanatics?

Dr. McNamara: we jail minor drug users for long periods because they are
easier to catch

Dr. McNamara: congress did pass mandatory sentencing and recently spent
hearings criticizing late arrivals by airlines with nary a word about
security lapses

FatFreddy: I wish to ask a Question. " Do we have any God given human
rights?" The Governor of Washington State told me NO. What do you say?

Dr. McNamara: tell him to read The Declaration of Independence if he knows
how to read

Dr. McNamara: it's supposed to be a government of the people, by the people
for the people -- not a government against the people

Dean_Becker: Dr. I am a true believer in the right to use of marijuana as
a sacrament, do you think there is room yet to fight for my beliefs?

Dr. McNamara: not only room but rights and a hell of a lot of Americans who
will join you

Dean_Becker: Thank you sir, with great fear and trepidation I will proceed.

Dr. McNamara: in my previous cop life i took a leave and did my doctoral
dissertation on the history of criminalizing drugs. religious lobbies were
mostly responsible and a century later the false racial and other
stereotypes they created of drug users still prevent rational public policy
discussion

Dr. McNamara: I have to sign off. Thank you. Please all join in a moment
of sorrow for those innocent victims who dies in the attack on our nation
and in their name renew our commitment to be the land of the free.