TRANSCRIPT OF THE HEMPCAR CREW'S VISIT TO THE DRUG POLICY FORUM

On Tuesday, October 2, the NYTimes com's Drug Policy forum hosted Scott
Furr and Grayson Sigler, also known as the Hempcar Crew, who drove more
than 10,000 miles in a car powered by hemp. This discussion was one in a
continuing series organized by forum participants.

Dean Becker: Welcome to Scott and Grayson. Before you get too deep into the
discussion of the uses of hemp I would like to relay a quick story of mine
about alternative fuels. The year, 1979, a friend and I were tired of the
gas lines and decided to do something about it. We started selling kits to
make Solargas, an alcohol fuel that used a solar panel to turn corn mash
into alcohol. On a sunshine filled day, we could make about 1 1/2 to 2
gallons. We did a simple conversion to the car and were able to pull steep
grades in my old Ford truck. We could not sell the panels worth a durn, but
we sold a lot of books about the process. I guess what I am saying here, is
that in mass, farmers co-ops could easily replace Shell, Arco and the rest
with the simple bio-mass of hemp. How can we best show the truth of this
ludicrous situation to the masses?

Scott Furr & Grayson Sigler/ Hempcar Crew: By doing things like the Hempcar
media campaign, organizing people at the grassroots level is a very good
place to start.

Dean Becker: Welcome gentlemen. So after 10,000 miles plus, can you shake
that steering wheel "death grip" from your hands? How many miles did the
Hempcar carry you?

Scott Furr & Grayson Sigler/ Hempcar Crew: We're a little tired and burnt
out from the road and we're also extremely glad to have accomplished a
12300 mile total for our trip

Scott Furr & Grayson Sigler/ Hempcar Crew: Hi Dean, thanks for having us,
pleasure to be here. We're On our way to Washington D.C. right now for the
big tour grand finale

Donald Way: I think the hempcar is a brilliant idea, and can't thank you
guys enough for pulling it off. More than a little gutsy... going up
against not only the forces of prohibition but big oil too (or are they one
and the same?)

Scott Furr & Grayson Sigler/ Hempcar Crew: donaldway thanks, the thing that
has been most wonderful about this trip is the people that have thanked us
for what we are doing. One of the things that many of our friends were
concerned about before leaving on the trip was the possibility of
interference from government and large corporations. I am happy to report
that not only were we left alone by law enforcement, no large corporate
cronies came after us either.

Dean Becker: Was there not some sort of an incident in Albequerqe with a
THC test performed?

Johnson: Thanks for being here tonight. Can you tell us the cost for a
gallon or possibly a million? : ) How many gallons did you use?

Donald Way: What kind of press did you get along your travels? Was there
much interest... were there many stories written... pro-hemp or against?

Dean Becker: I learned of the Hempcar from newspaper articles posted via
reform list distribution.

Donald Way: I learned of the Hempcar from Dean. I don't get out much.

George_McMahon: was hemp car fueled on just hemp biodeisel? or was it a
mix? and 2. It lloks like a car my old friend and associate Gatwood
Galbrith use d to dr. Is it the same one?

Johnson: I learned from Dean too : )

Scott Furr & Grayson Sigler/ Hempcar Crew: Yes we were invited to the New
Mexico state fair in Albequerqe and an issue arose where the state police
wanted to sample the fuel. Which they did and found minimal THC in the fuel
and told us, "Have a nice day, enjoy the fair." In actuality what happened,
some of the fair officials were unhappy with a NORML sponsorship on the car
that reads "Stop arresting responsible marijuana users". They tried to have
us removed from the state fair. This test was there only legal recourse. It
was ironic that the governor of New Mexico was the key note speaker of the
4.20 NORML conference.

Dean Becker: I too am curious about the economics of hemp fuel. I realize
it is quite expensive in comparison to mass produced gasoline. But like
Johnson 29 wondered, have you done the numbers on a million gallons, a
million barrells, 100 million barrels?

Scott Furr & Grayson Sigler/ Hempcar Crew: johnson29, It cost us
aproximately 4$/gallon for the oil that was then made into biodiesle. Some
quantities were donated and we used aproximately 600 gallons for the trip.
patient1, the car was fueled on purely biodiesel and the no the car was
donated by Grayson Sigler's brother. However we did talk with Gatewood
about the project.

Scott Furr & Grayson Sigler/ Hempcar Crew: No we haven't figured the cost
per million barrels. Hempseed Oil for fuel is not the most desireable way
of making fuel from hemp, however it is the easiest way of making fuel from
hemp. The most efficient and desireable way of making fuel from hemp is to
turn the stalks into methanol. At last estimate, if we grew hemp on 6% of
the U.S. landmass we could produce enough methanol to power the United
States per annum.

George_McMahon: We were running mercedez the time, and would have liked to
run same fuel. cost pretty stiff tho. Good car . good fuel. Glad to hear
someone did it . When every one is produceing oil seed tho price would be
better, More farms more seeds more presses etc. Right. I have heard rave
reports from both Canada and U.S. About the car and the trip.

Appalenergy: Hi All, Todd here from Appal Energy. We manufactured most of
HempCar.org's fuel from the hemp oil they purchased. Someone asked about
costs per gallon. It's a little unfair to give you today's costs on a crop
that is prohibited, thereby making oil supplies not only scarce but
expensive. If you were to ask what the cost of hemp biodiesel would be if
industrial hemp were legal, it would be comparative to or lower in cost
than biodiesel manufactured from soybeans or other fresh oils. The reason
is that hemp has so many more co-products, such as fiber and cellulose,
whereas soy has essentially only the feed meal and the oil. In dollars,
farmers could produce a gallon of biodiesel in general for ~$1.00 a gallon,
pre-road tax.

Dendecannabist: Congrats Hempcar Crew! Just missed ya in Santa Cruz at the
Compassion Flower Inn. Heard ya made it back to DC and alls well. Thanks,
we've been with ya all the way. Peace, Love and Liberty DdC Welcome
Cannabis food, fuel, fiber, FARMaceuticals, Hardrug&Booze Alternative!
http://www.angelfire.com/ca7/ddc/index.html

Dean Becker: "we could produce enough methanol to power the United States
per annum." ..thank you. Because the US govt. cannot allow the prestige and
power of the oil companies to diminish, lest the power of our government
itself be diminished, we have the Gulf War, the Drug War and many of the
terrible situations that confront our country. Have you received comments
or letters of inquiry from any of the state governments that are
considering allowing the growth of hemp?

George_McMahon: Todd,are you saying just the cost, without marketing the
rest of plant. or at end of whole plant harvest and sale. there are so many
saleable by products with hemp. soon the cost gets lowered

Scott Furr & Grayson Sigler/ Hempcar Crew: Hi Todd, good to see you made
it. Most of you may not know but Todd is Hempcars 5th crewmember and there
is no way we could have pulled the trip off w/o him. He worked many long
hours to make sure we got the fuel we needed, and make sure it got where we
needed it and when we needed. He also makes some damn fine hats!
dendecannabist , Santa Cruz was a great stop for us, we had a wonderful
time. Some of the highlights were staying at the Compassion Flower Inn,
meeting with the mayor and several area activists and my personal favorite
was spending time at the Poet and Patriot Irish Pub.

Appalenergy: Dean and others, I wouldn't be too concerned about a
government or the oil industries getting in the way of alternative fuels.
Think of them as dinosaurs, but smart enough to know to know their
extinction or mass modification is on the horizon. Already the "no SOX" EPA
policy if forcing petroleum diesel suppliers to start adding percents of
biodiesel to their low and no sulfur blends. And if you think about it, to
shut down the biodiesel, ethanol, biomass and bio-methanol industries,
there would have to be a concerted effort to throttle farmers. Seems that
if that were to begin to transpire, there might be a bit of a revolt, with
a little thinner pickin's on the grocery store shelves each successive winter.

Scott Furr & Grayson Sigler/ Hempcar Crew: We met with several state
representatives from various states on our trip who are working on trying
to pass Hemp legislation. Notably state assembly-person Virginia Strom
Martin in CA. We also met many people at the municipal level that are
interested in utilizing biodeisel in their transportation vehicles and seem
to be interested in the legalization of industrial hemp.

Dean Becker: Will you be publishing your diary or in other ways be
spreading the knowledge of what you learned on this trip?

Scott Furr & Grayson Sigler/ Hempcar Crew: We are currently working on a
documentary and also a book about the trip, possibly in coffee table
format. Lots of pictures and some words. One of the goals of this trip is
to produce a documentary and further promote alternative energy sources.

Appalenergy: patient1, Lock, stock and barrel (what a patriotic phrase!), a
small cooperative of farmers can take existing infrastructure, buildings,
grain bins, etc., build an oil extrusion/feed meal/biodiesel plant
producing 1,500 gallons a day, and their total cost allocated to each
gallon of biodiesel would be ~$1.00 a gallon. If they used it regionally,
rather than getting involved with the petroleum fuel distributing
structure, which inflates pricing further, home heating oil could be ~$1.15
a gallon (or less), off road diesel ~$1.15 a gallon (or less) and road
taxed diesel ~$1.60 a gallon (or less). And that's not any blend, but 100%
biodiesel.

Scott Furr & Grayson Sigler/ Hempcar Crew: Todd would you like to explain
how the fuel is made?

Dean Becker: Impressive. See any wild hemp plants in Kansas, Nebraska or
Iowa? Or has the DEA managed to find them all yet? Wonder how many millions
they spend to eradicate all that ditchweed when they could turn it into
motor fuel instead?

Scott Furr & Grayson Sigler/ Hempcar Crew: Of the states that we traveled
in we didn't see any wild ditchwee growing, but we did see lots of hemp
being legally grown in Canada.

Dean Becker: Is there a beginning of a hemp motor fuel industry in Canada?

Appalenergy: How to make biodiesel...? The sound bite method is to take 7
grams of potassium hydroxide (or 4 grams sodium hydroxide - otherwise known
as "lye"), dissolve into 200 mililiters of methanol or anhydrous ethanol,
blend with one liter of fresh oil, almost any type, agitate vigorously for
one/half hour, let settle a few hours, syphon the biodiesel off the top,
leaving the glycerin/residual alcohol/catalyst layer on the bottom, and
proceed to wash the biodiesel with water to remove any remaining caustic,
soaps or glycerin. Rule of thumb is 1 gallon in, 1 gallon out - maybe 2 or
3 percent less depending on operator care and the system used. Best
internet site (so far) for biodiesel manufacture is at
www.journeytoforever.org in their "Biofuels" section.

Donald Way: Once again, for sanity we must look to Canada.

Dean Becker: On your travels, did you make it by Rainbow farms?

Scott Furr & Grayson Sigler/ Hempcar Crew: Suprisingly no, and because of
that our message in Canada was trying to promote using the vast ag
resources that Canada has to make fuel. When we were there we saw
warehouses full of hempseed stockpiled for lack of buyers.

Johnson: Besides fuel, what else can the hempseed be used for?

Scott Furr & Grayson Sigler/ Hempcar Crew: No we did not have the
opportunity to visit Rainbow farms on our trip. We have talked with many
people from Michigan. Expressing our condolences to those slain, this is a
prime example on why the drug war needs to end.

Appalenergy: Dean, Some in the hemp oil/food industry are looking at using
the dreggs off the bottom of each settling tank of hemp oil and converting
it to biodiesel. This stuff is really tough to filter, as there are so many
fines in it, and they cannot wait the inordinate time period to let
everything settle out. So they get 90% of the oil for health and food
purposes and run the last 10% through the simple process of making
biodiesel, where the fines settle out in seconds. It's a lot less expensive
than letting the oil set for a month or more. Or, they could go the route
of using hexane to extract the oil, as is done with almost all veg oil on
grocery store shelves, and omit the problems of "fines." But then, I don't
think too many people would care for the idea of "acceptable traces" of
hexane in their health product.

Scott Furr & Grayson Sigler/ Hempcar Crew: Food is the primary use of
hempseed as it is one of the most nutritious foods in existance. We would
rather see the seed used for food than for fuel however, seed that is no
longer edible is perfect for making fuel.

Dendecannabist: Ever think how much the oil companies make while you sit in
traffic?P8) Or how much fossil fuels it takes transporting and extracting
fossil fuels? How many feet per gallon do the tanks and jets get protecting
foreign oil interest? Bush solves the energy problems like the drug
problem. Not a clue so keep doing the same. I think Clinton called that
insanity. But didn't follow it any better himself. Nevermind the vested
conflict of interest. Pharmaceuticals and prisons too. Now the Arctic is to
get drilled bringing more global warming, sulfer, lead and asthma. Oil and
Petro Chems, Fossil Fuels so ingrained in government removing them's like
cleaning grease with water, it only smears. Voting for either status quo
won't do any good for the citizens energy problems or health. Grassroots up
seems clear. A brand new party for the people. Colombian oil or Ukranian
now Afghans and world war for what was obsolete 100 years ago. Just
Maintaining Dysfunction. Peace, Love and Liberty DARE the FRCn Partnership
Liberty or D.E.A.th! DdC Fuel from Hemp
http://www.angelfire.com/ca7/ddc/Fuel.html OPEC Fossil Fuels vs Homegrown
Biomass AEC, DOE, NRC, Nuclear Murderers Whitless
http://boards.marihemp.com/boards/politics/media/37/37800.gif Greedy Fools
http://boards.marihemp.com/boards/politics/media/37/37826.gif Prohibition
Inc. http://boards.marihemp.com/boards/politics/media/37/37825.gif Next
http://boards.marihemp.com/boards/politics/media/37/37828.gif

Dean Becker Is there a central hemp organization that we could join forces
with, so as to help bring about the end of this cruel hoax against the
American consumer?

Scott Furr & Grayson Sigler/ Hempcar Crew: We think its really important
that people work in their local communities to affect change. One of the
biggest problems that I see personally is that people tend to feel
powerless in the face of government incorporated.

Appalenergy: Then you have the other "co-products" which most other
oilseeds do not: the cellulosic hurd, used as bedding or ethanol feedstock;
the fiber, used in textiles, reinforcement for resinous products and or
concrete, highly insulative fiber board; the feed meal, highly nutritious
for both humans and cattle (sometimes little differece? :) and then the
oil. Technically, there is no other oilseed crop that yields as many
co-products as does hemp. Couple the ability to tap into these markets with
a farmer's reduction in use of pesticides and herbicides each year when
annually rotating industrial hemp with traditional crops, and farmers start
to see a light at the end of the mortgage tunnel.

Dendecannabist: Hempseed is the most nutritionally complete food on the
planet. Pacific Hemp http://www.pacifichemp.com

Scott Furr & Grayson Sigler/ Hempcar Crew: No and that's one of the
problems with the hemp movement and many grassroots organizations in
general. There is a lack of organization. So get involved.

Dean Becker: Are there additional points you want to make that we have not
addressed?

Appalenergy: Dean, You asked if there was anything you could do? Scott's
right. Starting locally and maintaining that presence is the best way to
get people to congregate on an issue. There is "parallel" manner in which
to operate, but it's a little less legal. It's called "Overgrow the
Government," where you plant cannabis seeds in all the wild places, never
returning, but letting nature broadcast the fruit further and further each
year. Either the government has to increase taxes on citizens for bigger
"erradication" programs, or they start to get with the program. It's been
going on for 30 years and more. Just needs a new generation of volunteers.
(But then I didn't suggest this... :)

Dendecannabist :Thanks again Hempcar Hempsters - Time to spark my own fuel
source while munchin on a Mama Indica's! Be Well DdC love it or leave it
http://www.cannabinoid.com/boards/politics/media/37/37052.gif Fascist v
Lorax http://boards.marihemp.com/boards/politics/media/37/37444.gif

Scott Furr & Grayson Sigler/ Hempcar Crew: I have to go soon, battery on
the cell phone is running low and I(seth the typist). If you have any other
questions please direct them to Todd. Thanks for having me on. If you'd
like to contact us with any more questions or information please do so
crew@hempcar.org.

Appalenergy: Additional Points? About Hemp? Hmmmmmmm....... Well, the idea
that antagonists forward, that industrial hemp cannot be distinguished from
more potent strains of the same species and therefore "smokeable cannabis"
laws could not be adequately enforced is falacious in many ways. What is
perhaps most morally devastating is that it is acceptable to grow
industrial hemp for national defense in war time, but not acceptable to
grow industrial hemp for national defense in peace time. This is a typical
American double standard. I personally believe that from an energy policy
perspective, it is any President's ethical, principle and moral duty to
reduce the consumption of fossil fuels and increase focus on renewables.
But we don't. I certainly hope that this type of unethical, unprincipled
and immoral behavior prevents our present President from resting as well as
he ordinarily might. We'll see. Or maybe we won't...

Scott Furr & Grayson Sigler/ Hempcar Crew: Thanks Dean for having us.

Johnson: Thanks to all of you for my education

Donald Way: Yes, thank you for coming here and thank you for what you're
doing. The best of luck to you in your future endeavors.

Dean Becker: My pleasure, thank you Scott! I will get involved, I live very
close to the town of Hempstead, Tx. Seems it must have been good for this
country at some prior date. Thanks to all the Hempcar crew, a superb effort!