Booyashaka! Cheggit! Respek!

I love how Monolake and Pole's opening this shit, and then you got Audion playing two weeks later... and the breaks lineup sounds sick too... wicked programming!

I will be there, freaking out!!! -- Over things like the disproportion with hot dogs and buns, all the radio antennas and how they're part of a massive mind control scheme, how shoes don't last long enough, and how the world is run by reptilians.

Huh? I have to change my character encoding? To which setting? And what's up with it looking fine one instant and then fucked up the next? Anyway I'm set to UTF-8 already. Last time I looked at this thread everything was screwy. Now only some things. Next minute, anything could change. I think you're going to have to explain this a lot better because generally there's no need to switch from UTF-8. I'm wondering why it only happens with this site. And if it does, why should we change the view options just so we can get accents to display in [ Rave.ca ] Shouldn't it work in a default unicode like UTF-8?

Yeah but I don't think they're talking about codeine when they talk about tippin on Robo, I mean I know Robo DM well, and Dimetapp, hell even Buckley's but good luck getting enough of that shit down. Codeine in cough syrup? Or is this designed for something else? Anyways, very interesting. I've never seen that stuff before, is it popular in Texas though?

DJ Skrew was most definitely doing dextromethorphan. 3 6 Mafia does the codeine jolly rancher drink that's actually pretty tasty and a good buzz with a few joints. Holla. There's a whole bunch of different recipes and they're pretty much all mentioned in different Swishahouse tracks. You can look them up on a few sites where people don't talk like gangstas, I'd have to ask my friend what site it was again because we were trying to figure out why there's so many different weird and sort of questionably fun drinks. I guess I'm thinking of "Still Tippin", they talk about Robo specifically there. DXM.

I once obtained a huge quantity of pure DXM in capsule form and experimented with it way too often. It didn't mix well with alcohol at all, I found I'd end up with the dry heaves really bad and I'd start really feeling the presence of something in my blood. And there was, namely alcohol... just usually it doesn't feel like it's crawling through your veins being evil. So I'd be really hesitant to knock any sort of Robo back with vodka.

The highest dose I ever tried of these caps was well below the circa 1000 mg "Plateau Sigma" trip, at 500 mg. That was fucked. Crazier by far than ketamine or PCP for dissociative effect. I knew one guy who did a mad amount and reached this infamous Plateau Sigma. Well he seemed ok afterwards, capable of doing tags so cryptic and colourful you knew he had been touched by something at some point.

I wonder what the handicap would be, seeing more colours than usual? Having unusually tactile sexual experiences? Having profound insights and illustrating better than usual? Hmmm... my kids are going to be geniuses.

But the other possiblity is that they'll be able to ride that crazy moebius strip tube thing that shows up on 2CT21 that kind of looks like it heads somewhere weird.

Well you can't find LSD 25 anymore at all because no one has a clue how to make it properly. Those arrests had a huge impact, I remember when the well dried out and I started hearing people actually daring to ask for more than a fin for a tab. However there are obviously chemists making some decent analogues, and I've had a few awesome trips the last few times I found acid. But if you ever try LSD 25, for example the really strong Albert Hoffman 2000 edition, you realize it's an entirely different ball game. A single hit of this stuff was apparently quadruple-dipped, and it kicked in on my fingers. I am not kidding. And it wasn't just a tingle, I started hallucinating a lot after picking it up. After dropping it rose up to ultra-overload extremely quickly, and no I don't have a rough timeline I was fucking tripping my ass off. My visual field was replaced with a sea of stars that acted as vectors for every object in my extremely distorted visual field. Long story short it was really intense. I had done five hits of White Clinical before this, I had done seven hits of California Sunshine, never really felt that it was worth it to munch a whole quarter sheet like some people have done, and most of the stories involving that sort of incident involve bizarre incidents with public nudity and the police.

What I'm wondering is if there are any stats floating around about what kind of acid it is. It doesn't get discussed often but I remember people in Toronto often being told by their source which analogue or isomer or whatever you call it their hits were. But of course I had an impeccable source back then and did it religiously.

BTW, I'm sure most people who don't talk out of their asses regularly know this, but you can't put PCP on blotter paper, it's not the same sort of substance and nowhere near as potent as LSD. You dose acid in micrograms, and you dose PCP in milligrams. Big huge difference. Plus PCP is pasty and usually sells just fine as "Mescaline", which of course it is absolutely nothing like.

There were a bunch of fleur-de-lys hits going around recently that came from rural Quebec. They were really amazing, and they had that same adrenaline rush buzz that comes with the acid onset, the hallucinations that are distinctive to LSD, and the duration of 12 hours that is typical for real LSD. Not up to three days like PCP. So um, in reference to some retard's post there, no I'm pretty sure MTL acid is still acid.

It's definitely still around but tends to be a little hard to track down. I'm not surprised there's liquid in the T-dot, though I wonder if it's similar to the weak liquid I used to get back in the day. Sometimes I'm positive the sources must be local because some hits are nothing to write home about. This is where I envy psy-trancers, there's always some floating around in that scene. It tends to show up, as namaste noted, during the festival season, Toronto and Montreal mixes up during festival season and lo and behold I end up getting good hits. Thank you, Toronto, for the reliable drugs and the informed user population.

If the lmao has to do with non-sequitor, yo, touché, I went on my own little trip there and then lo and behold essay. But if it's just that last line yes, lmao, burning... candle... at... both... ends... I think this brings up something else: don't post while you're starting to crash from the weekend, you'll sound like you're coming out of left field. But well, to a degree that above rant is loosely relevant. :S Originally I was going to get to my point, not post what I wanted to put in the don't do drugs post that doesn't exist...

And originally that point was that even if it's legal it's still a drug. Don't get excessive with it and IMHO don't advertise it as an alternative on forums. I wanted originally to say that for a long time 2C drugs were legal (that being 2CI, 2CB, 2CT7, 2CT21, yes I have tried them all), and now they're classified substances because they drew attention to themselves. This is an example of the legality thing getting to be a problem because of bad publicity (deaths due to insufflation of 7 and 21). I think Psychonaut is great for stocking salvia and all these alternative things, but I can't help but wonder what happens if you overdose on the alternatives. I know for instance that passion flower, which is in a lot of alternative smokes, is an MaO-inhibitor and as such can be really dangerous to take in excess, especially if you're doing something that wouldn't seem dangerous normally, as in eating nuts, chocolate, or anything with caffeine, tobacco, etc. It's also a bad idea to take too much St. John's Wort, and I have noticed that sometimes my pupils would dilate if for instance I had the Sobé drink with that in it. As for BZP, I don't think anyone should be waving the flag and getting cocky about its legality. If it really takes off there will be controversy guaranteed, because it's intended for recreational purposes and as such is in fact a drug. I don't know, I'd like to try these things to get an idea of what they're like, and have an alternative to the mouth erosion. However I get worried that the whole hoopla is going to wind you up in a legal battle that might end up getting yet another relatively harmless substance classified.

(There I hope I've redeemed myself... I wish there was a button that would let me take my post up there and move it somewhere where it's actually part of the discussion. Wow. Egg on my face.)

I don't know... drugs are something people do, just like going to parties. They're independant things. They do intersect with a lot of people. That's a question of choice. I find the condescension from the straightedgers really irritating because it's intrusive. Why do people feel the need to proselytize that they don't do something? That's your choice, and it's great when people can discipline themselves but elitism about it isn't any better. That right to choose is something that has always been a part of the rave experience for me. You choose your poison.

If you really want to make sure no one's on drugs, throw your stuff during the day, not from 11pm to 6am. Open it up to the whole family. I bet you'd never want to do that, so you've got to accept that when the sun goes down, people tend to get inebriated.

Sometimes it astonishes me how much shame people try to assign to things that have been part of debate and discourse for some time and actually demand a little bit more insight than a boycott attitude, and all the fallacious ways in which people try to essentially defend their right not to do drugs. Nobody's making anybody do anything. I've never ever met a "pusher". It's a myth. People who go to raves for the drugs are a-plenty, and they tend to be outsiders who base that decision off of the rave stereotype. However, people who do drugs just feel like it. It's a lifestyle choice. You shouldn't attempt to control other people's lives, even if you think it's going to help rid the world of undesirables. We can't have a police state approach to sketchpads, and everyone knows that. Additionally it's not your place to judge what is "too much" of something, believe it or not that's not set in stone. It is generally not a good idea to do anything to excess but one could conceivably look up a bunch of info on Erowid about metabolizing rates for specific drugs, decide for instance with speed that you shouldn't do more than 100mg in an hour (this is just theoretical, I didn't read this anywhere), and stick by that guideline roughly, seem to be completely excessive to the non-user, and yet retain a healthy state throughout. People also like to take risks, and there is a definite gray zone about what constitutes a serious danger between different individuals.

I personally feel that I can usually mostly keep my composure when I do drugs. This isn't true for everyone. For instance I find I don't get like a lot of people do on speed, talking way too loud about absolutely nothing or trying to draw mustaches on people. I will slap the occasional person in the face then run for it, or make a lot of jokes about bodily fluids, or just go on and on about hot carls. But that's the thing. Drug users love the chaos. A lot of non-users are really obsessed with control. Be careful, that kind of mentality can cause ulcers and constipation. I do tend to write long posts though. And my tongue gets fucked up trying to lick the plaque off my teeth, which I somehow manage to hide well so I don't "guern" all evening. Oh god, please kill me, I can't sleep. ;)

Shit and I totally posted this in the wrong place. It's over people... sorry.

It seems to change on every refresh... totally strange.

Accents give character and really are essential in understanding the pronunciation of French words as far as I'm concerned. And when you're in University bad spelling becomes a pet peeve really fast. At least for me. And Noah I can assure you there's nothing worse than writing really quickly on a French keyboard or on a Mac, where you just need to hit the option key, way easier than holding Alt down and jabbing in 0233 or whatever - I've got to say on a standard American qwerty keyboard it's a nuisance to try to find the right ASCII code so it often just doesn't come up. But I took a lot of time memorizing it because, well, I love speaking French, it's always been a part of my life, even in Toronto, though I really felt like a minority there. It's too bad you never use accents, I don't know whether you're comfortably fluent, but remember that a lot of people do. Almost all of the people I'm communicating with via PMs and other profile stuff are French. I'm sure that non-standard unicode thing is the reason. Quite often you have A@e or a question mark showing up.

I want to see if it shows up this time:

á à â ä ç é è ê ë î

Ok ça marche encore... mais madam, j'ai aperçu que ton ç marche en fait pas. Peut être les accents se perdent dans un vacuum culturel... c'est vraiment comme Toronto.

As you may have noticed, I also ironically have gone and assumed it was working and after an update it went down the toilet.

Hehe... Mais oui, c'est possible d'écrire sans accents mais c'est laid et vraiment, si t'on ecrit les messages c'est vraiment incorrect de remplacer tes égus avec "er", comme plusiers Français sur msn - mdr, keski c passe, . Mais en fait c'est pas l'anglais d'Amerique qu'on parle, l'orthographe correct faut être supporter, juste pour qu'on peut être absolutement clair de temps a temps. Il y a des temps ou les accents se montrent, autrefois c les ? Je vois bien l'accent égu au fin de ma poste, et avant ça marchait pas. J'imagine ce message et presque incompréhensible mais allons voir.

Wow... je me sens un peu cave la, les voila. Mais je pense ils se montrent pas dans l'inbox ou les messages privé.

Un update plus tard, tout est fucké.

Et bien je voulait pas ecrire supporter dans l'infinitif lol

Eh c'est quoi cette truc de marde ou toute les accents se changent en ????????

If anyone's ever seen the movie Julien Donkey Boy it has the world-famous director Werner Herzog playing a character trying to get as high as possible on cough syrup. There's a part where he looks at the bottle and says "do not take if hypersensitive... am I hypersensitive?" then he takes like five swigs and starts waving his arm around going "take me to the heights". He puts on a gas mask and listens to the same blues song over and over again. If you want to know what cough syrup is like in high doses there's your example. I totally wouldn't recommend it.

Well I could get into stuff like asking why everyone thinks that TRIP consists of k-tards just for spreading information on it or doing research, but it's pointless. K-tards and meth-heads? Man I don't like excess either, where did I say I did?

Yeah drugs do kill idiots. That's probably why you guys are so anti-drug, they must be like kryptonite for y'all.

Yes it's true, stooping to the level of dissing takes away from what I wanted to say. Just kind of hard to put up with blatant stupidity.

Yawn... ok I have better things to do than waste my time on a flame war. Spaciba, da svidania.

I wasn't angry there ;) that was pure sarcasm.

I hate ignorant dickweeds who write happy hardcore shit.

Your level of ignorance is staggering. Tim is actually an MD and he's done serious research on ketamine. What's funny about that? Where do we lose credibility? TRIP is based out of the Queen Street Health Centre in Toronto and we have plenty of medical professionals working for us. So if you want to go against science as well go for it. You're a fucking idiot.

I was dead sober when I wrote that. I am right now. Judging by your idiotic sentences you must be hitting the crack pipe pretty hard.

"ive been taking drugs for like 10 years now, and i never did badtrips
and most of the people i now never did too, because we have a brain, and we all know that k is pure shit anyways..." but you don't have enough of a brain to spell know right. Fuck man, you must be a crackhead.

"if you were in this group, you are the best to know that its useless to tell a drug addict not to do drug, or to chage thier habbits" ouch spelling. Have you ever gone to school? Or skool or however you spell it? Fuck man, I'm talking to a total twinkie here.

Also that's in no way true. Addiction is beatable, and I can think of a million cases of it working out. Being part of this group convinced me of that. If someone doesn't want to stop, they won't, yes, granted, but if they do want to stop and are having a hard time kicking their addiction they can get through it.

As for you, Repent Tokyo, you're one of those people who doesn't even smoke weed and thinks it's the most evil thing in the world, I remember what a douche you were when I dropped by your place in Cote St. Luc. Your Scott's old roommate aren't you? That guy who throws the Hard as Fart parties? What did you get a boner and come up with that name? Did you come up with that while watching gay porn?

Fucking losers!

If people get addicted to something, the addiction is the problem, not the drug itself. Plenty of people can control their usage of drugs, others cannot. It's too bad what happened with your friend but I'm sorry to say that has to do with the individual and not the drug. In what way did the k cause him to commit suicide? K doesn't make you do anything, it opens up some things in your brain and drains serotonin, yes, so in the end it's your brain that leads you to do anything. It's your personality.

The Hardcore scene here as well as in Toronto consists of a lot of nihilists, sorry to say it, who don't really have a very positive outlook on life or much of a sense of limits. It's called Hardcore after all, people are always trying to go harder, faster, crazier, it goes with the program. A lot of fucking sketchpads frequent the hardcore scene too, a lot of people who can't keep themselves under control. I would know, I see my friends going crazy overboard on things all the time. But most people I know moderate quite well and keep things in order, and for them it's recreational. I'm not surprised a lot of people are wasting themselves away on shit, whether it's k, speed, coke, crack, meth, acid, whatever it is. People often don't bother to think about harm reduction, about informing themselves of risks. A lot of people think drug use is a race, who can do the most. Communities need to learn to deal with addiction and drug abuse better. You do too much of anything and you will die - water for instance, you drink too much and you can end up having a seizure, or drown. My argument is just that it's not the drug that's the cause of the problem, it's the psychology of addiction and the lack of moderation, and the society that surrounds it. I got angry at you because you were laughing at Trip's efforts to discuss the realities of the drug, and find a way to get people to think a bit about their patterns of usage, if they're excessive or not. You of all people should be supportive of incentives to inform the public, instead of feeling that it's better to just turn your back on something and let the same problems show up over and over again. I have seen the dark side of k myself, injection use of it for example, and I've seen people who do a bump here and there and don't have a problem.

I never said "everybody do k"... you're putting words in my mouth. I said I enjoy it, I moderate it, and I don't see the need to demonize it. I also was defending TRIP for managing to save a lot of people from the fate your friends suffered. But go ahead and act like information isn't needed, like we should all just pretend a drug that a few people abused doesn't exist and hope it goes away. That kind of thought is why nobody bothers to read up a little bit before deciding to become a drugbag.

And what? We have to hate k because they do in the UK? Dude your arguments are weak! Harm reduction versus ignorance. That's what I'm preaching. You just want to have people turn their back on things because you have your own personal pain. That's like saying that e is deadly because some idiot goes and takes 5 of them in a night and doesn't drink any water, then ends up dying of dehydration or liver failure - again it's not the e, it's the lack of water! And K is a party drug, whether you like it or not, because people do it at parties. I take a bump and dance like crazy. It's not a k hole every time. So the idea that it kills scenes makes no sense.

From 2000-2004 in both Toronto and Montreal there was a crackdown on parties by the authorities that led to a decrease in rave popularity. It had nothing to do with the death of a scene because of a particular drug, that's just a coincidence. The cost of throwing a party went up, clubs were closed because of drug seizures, the whole scene, not just hardcore, saw a decline because of a change in paradigm. Nobody wanted to go to clubs and spend $40 or way more on a ticket to be trapped in a dark room with security everywhere, and things went back underground. From my perspective 2000-2004 was the time of the upswing of outdoor free parties, a pull away from club-based promotion. There are a million reasons why hardcore saw a decline. Don't go making blanket statements when you don't have the full picture.

You could just as well say that crystal meth killed the scene, it was extraordinarily popular during that time. So is coke, it still is. Is it killing scenes? Some say yes, others say it's helping people be more social. I'm not on a pro-drug or anti-drug stance. I just feel that you should leave people a choice and not make judgments from a limited and biased perspective.

Ostie ton marde d'orthographe... Comment est-ce que tu veux qu'on comprend ça? "pi ta pas encore comprit que sten grande partie a cause dla k?" C'est pas le français ça, c'est incomprehensible. Et tu comprends mal que j'ai travaillé dans un groupe d'informatique sur ce sujet. On etait courant sur tout la scène, partout en Canada. J'ai vu les statistiques sur l'usage et il avait beaucoup des choses qui ont passé pendant cette époque. Je suis informé. Et toi?

Scott's right about a lot of people (though probably a lot less than 99%) not using their expensive external gear. It's like getting fancy rims or something. Everyone loves listing all their equipment like it gives them credentials or like the chicks will go "OOOOOH HE'S GOT A ROLAND JP 8000" (which btw is a totally lame synth, sorry...). Thing is, you can't plug it all in at once, unless you have your own transformer, and you're probably buying new gear because you haven't figured out the old stuff yet. If it's classic gear, it tends to be nicely limited and means that it's got a particular sound. That's why I like my Juno 106 (didn't get the JUMO lol), it's not complex and it's not full of presets, so you have to actually figure out how to create sounds to make it work, and does it ever. Simple subtractive synthesis. Easy as hell. Nicest basses ever.

I personally think the best method is to record a whole big library of samples and divide things up by timbre, so whether you even own the gear to me seems irrelevant. Rentals are a good idea, you can get used to a machine for a weekend, record a few things off of them, use them in tracks. You can only have so many sounds in every frequency range, so if you're running seventy vintage drum machines at once all you'll hear is a swamp anyway. However it is nice to switch up your gear. If you're already getting paid for your music and that's why you have all the gear more power to you. If you've just somehow got thousands of dollars to spend (how? how? how?) you're a lucky bastard - and you probably aren't in credit hell like myself. Otherwise it's honestly a big cockblocking competitive ego game, and I know because I have so many friends who buy gear regularly but don't know what the fuck to do with it. They get something new and complex before they've even figured out what they want to do with it in the first place. Don't be a random consumer, people! Choose your gear wisely!

I started out on Impulse Tracker, so I still think in terms of polished samples and bounced audio. What I actually use is my MacBook Pro running Ableton Live, as well as a PC with totally irrelevant specs for running a slew of VSTS to be bounced to audio. I use so many different programs it's not funny but I'll try to summarize:
Max/MSP 4.5
Reaktor 5
Renoise (really good for fast sample switching - keep the same rhythm, change the sound)
Fruity Loops 6 Studio
Sound Forge 8
Ableton Live 6.02 on the PC, 5.2 on the Mac (paid for) with, to name a few VSTS:
Audiorealism Bassline Pro
Battery 3
Absynth 3 & 4
Rob Papen's Blue
NI's Synthetic Drums, vol 1 and 2
dBlue Glitch *kicks fucking ass*
Toad and Peach (nintendo sounds)
The Ohmforce collection, with Ohmboyz, Hematohm, Predatohm etc.
The Izotope mastering suite *essential*: Spectron, Ozone, Trash
Camel Audio's CamelPhat and CamelSpace
Amplitube
... and more.
Evolution X-session controller
M-Audio Quattro
Edirol FA-66
No monitors :(
Crappy mixer :(

It happens. I still seem to be able to write with this setup, but I wish I didn't have to go to other people's houses to master.

I would of course kill for the new Nordleads, a Moog Voyager, a Moogerfooger, and an AKAI MC 2000, and I'd love to have a Harman Neuron one day (only $7000) as well as the Eventide Orville (another $7000). I also need to find me some good monitors and a mixer, as mentioned above.

Electronic music always reduces down to running samples or loops or bounced audio tracks at some level, so really, the gear is extraneous to the montage editor. And I wouldn't say that Acid is tailored specifically to breaks/drum and bass sounds, nor that Ableton is all techno, nor that Renoise is all breakcore. Everybody approaches music differently, so to get into a whole debate about software vs. hardware is really just pointless. What difference does it make? Why do people make such broad generalizations? Hardware is better for performance, but in the studio you need software. You need to see your tracks in front of you, a timeline, a mixer. Plus you need a place to record to. So I can't really understand the idea of it being a dichotomy. You need a bit of both.

Lol I can't believe how much time people waste saying "it sucks, it sucks, it sucks..." particularly Deadfunk. What did you have a bad trip and get all scared and shit your pants? You seem to post some sort of malinformed reply every time you get a chance about k. Shut up already, people aren't going to quit just because you think it sucks. I officially think you suck.

For those who can handle it, K is super fun and allows you to get into some seriously complex headtrips that can sometimes be quite therapeutic. It's a DISSOCIATIVE ANAESTHETIC. It drains serotonin and B12, so you want to have enough of that in your system. It makes people dance like robots.

It has its cons. But if you don't like it, don't do it... but don't keep on talking about how much you hate it over and over again, it's pointless. Some people do it, obviously most people are totally ignorant about what it is.

[ www.erowid.org ] - go here, get informed, then talk.

Nuff said.

Dude... Purple ain't codeine, it's DXM... it's like, more fucked up than ketamine. Do some research, seriously... that's why people drink the syzzurp down in Houston, for the DXM. Have none of you ever reached plateau Sigma? Fakers.

There's already an übercool site called ihatemusic... very snob though, mostly experimental and noise groups.

Fuck PLUR! WHAM!

War, Hate, Anarchy, Malice!

I hate hate. I prefer loathing... it simmers more, it has a more delicious aroma.

I loathe being a bipolar crackhead. I keep making a fool of myself when my mood switches HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY JOY JOY.

Oh god I have to stick my head in the microwave now. Just get that fork in the door safety switch and I'm ok.

Hey um... I used to work for the Toronto Raver Information Project and what most of you don't realize is that we have effectively gotten people to smarten up on this sort of issue through this kind of work. Toronto has an out of control ketamine scene and it was really important that we got them better informed on its risks. For you to laugh this sort of thing off from the limited perspective you have in Montréal just displays your ignorance. We have nothing that parallels TRIP in Montréal. GRIP has never been as active and doesn't tend to go through the trouble TRIP did. We had funding from the city of Toronto to go to parties and distribute information on how to safely do drugs, which is totally legit. If you didn't get that from this post then you don't understand how TRIP works. They've been around since 1996 and get mad respect in Toronto because the group consists of ravers who know what they're talking about when it comes down to the effects of something on the brain. We had info on everything from what kind of pills contained what sort of drugs to the weird wacky world of research chemicals like 2-CB, a-MT, Foxy, stuff half of you wouldn't even know what to do with. We set up booths at parties, give out all sorts of free information and condoms, well written and well researched, so that ravers don't go and get addicted to things and turn into sketchpads. This gathering was an information session and these things tend to be popular with people who don't just dismiss drug information as a waste of time. I guarantee you that this wasn't even the type of thing where people were on K, we actually take things seriously enough that this is a government-funded project that deals with the front lines of the battle for harm reduction rights. What that means is that we work around the clock to ensure that parties don't get closed down, by being the mediators between the party and the law, that we advocate for rights on behalf of parties, that we are activists on behalf of a scene that is under fire all over Canada. We fight for your right to party... so quit being assholes and show some motherfucking respect!

D.A.V.E. the Drummer... woot! This is going to kick ass!

I shall grace this teuf with my presence... breakcore, that's like that stuff that's kind of like a truck falling on a huge pile of kittens carrying snare drums, right?