here goes nothing!
Originally Posted By __PHOENIX__
You make it sound so unrealistic I can't help but smile. Isn't it funny how we believe we need certain things because we're so used to them?...because we've been conditioned by systems of control?
It's ironic that you mention the overpopulation problem cause the way I see it, overpopulation only exists because we live within limited surroundings...Realistically speaking we live in a world composed of infinite space (supposedly / theoretically) which includes countless solar systems with potentially limitless land & resources. If we became immortal, figured out a way to distribute the universe's available resources evenly so that every living consciousness was perpetually happy and had more than they need to survive (which most of us have right now already), we wouldn't need economy alltogether because we'd all be more than satisfied therefore there'd be no desire to compete with one another which would end individual greed and envy. Furthermore, to think that immortality would potentially eliminate the need to live is unjustified... How else could we possibly come close to achieving our full potential as individuals or as a species without endless time to do so? Progress would increase at unimaginable exponential speeds by the nanosecond. The way things are now you can never possibly learn everything you want to know because you simply don't have the opportunity or time to communicate with every person alive, every person who's ever lived, ,every person who will ever be born, nor could you study everything that's ever existed. To elaborate on censorship, it simply wouldn't be required in a perfect world because rape wouldn't exist without violence and fear. People would have eveything they could possibly need so there would be no precursor to misuse information with malicious intent.
No no no, No!
I very strongly disagree with a lot of that, most of it even. It's in our nature to never be satisfied, inanimate objects are satisfied because they don't need anything to persist, the very notion of life is to strive for something. If we were complete, we'd have nothing left to strive for and then why live at all? It's a very widely held notion in sci fi that immortal beings are either evil or crave the only thing they can't have, death. And this is very important because again, we have desire, without desire, we have no purpose, and without purpose, life is tedious and meaningless. An immortal society not only would never progress (due to the fact, one which I strongly believe, that the older you get, the less open your mind is to new things) but they would end up obliterating themselves because that would be the ONLY thing they couldn't achieve; ironically (and no this doesn't fall under the definition of irony, but no one ever uses it properly) anyway.
This can be understood by the notion of space travel. I once pondered travelling to other solar systems while on some illegal psychedelic drug and came to the conclusion that I would never need to leave the solar system. Everything I know and love is here, if I was able to leave, all I'd want would be to come back, but once back everyone I knew or loved would be long dead. You cannot live without emotion, emotion necessitates attachment and without attachment, we are essential dead. If you were the only human left on earth, would you be concerned with furthering your knowledge os quantum theory!? Or would you be more inclined to dream of not being alone anymore. Without competition, we have no reason to progress, without an uninformed population, children, we would never question our methods and that is why there would be no progress. An immortable being would likely try to Dominate the world, the universe and would more than likely oppress the universe than make it free, without fear, there is no hope, without death, there is no life.
You speak of 'full potential' and then of unlimited time, 'if' we lived forever our potential would be limitless and you'd never achieve anything, you'd always be learning more and going further and you'd really never be satisfied. I personaly feel that I am satisfied with my life and realizing that I will always technically be alone, I need not live any more. I am not suicidal, but I have experienced wonderful things and I honestly would not be afraid if I knew I were to die tomorrow. Not because I am physically satisfied but because I realize my own limits, my own inabilities and a million years would not change that. At the very least you must understand that you can never be everything, you will never be a dolphin for example, but having done EVERYTHING else, you may in fact wish to be something other than yourself. But I digress, in the HitchHickers' Guide To The Galaxy, a discussion along the lines of
"The way things are now you can never possibly learn everything you want to know because you simply don't have the opportunity or time to communicate with every person alive, every person who's ever lived, ,every person who will ever be born, nor could you study everything that's ever existed."
took place and the being came to the very realistic conclusion that the rate of birth on each planet is potentially near infinity, and there are potentially an inifinite amount of planets, now see what happens here, you could visit everyone on a planet, but the second you leave, a child will be born and that child will die long before you reach even the 100th planet you are visiting, therefor you could never meet everyone because there is an inifite amount of people and infinity as we all know is not possible to attain, in any way shape or form.
As far as rape goes... girls love violent sex, so violence would have to remain for women to be satisfied, and satisfaction is important right? Fear must also exist, otherwise immortal being would be killing each other left and right with no consequences to fear, and that takes away the immortality, which in itself, proves the assumption incorrect. (Discrete math IS useful) And you may say that without violence, no one would kill anyone else, but that is simply misguided as accidents happen all the time.
Humans cannot have everything they possibly need. Economics teaches us that ressources are limited, this limit creates the need for an economy (not currency, just demand and supply). Our most basic needs are unsatisfiable by definition, you can never eat enough to sustain yourself without predetermining your life span for example. As ressources are consumed and eventually brought to 0, we need to replace those resources.
If you're wish is to have a society of creatures that need no replenishment, and are therefor completely 100% satisfied, I believe you are describing a dead planet. This may sound somber but I also strongly believe that death is the ultimate answer to our questions, when we die, we become part of the universe as opposed to senses that can only feel/taste/touch/hear and smell our immediate surroundings. However, every atom in our body is 100% attoned to the universe, every gravitational force, every unit of energy and matter affects every single other atom. For this not to be true, there would have to be separate universes, which to me at least is incomprehensable.
A rock is satisfied, needing to achieve nothing more to remain in it's current state, living beings are much more complicated and IMO the complete opposite of anything that is eternally satisfied.
You use some oxymorons/redundancies that make it easy to argue against, I'll list them now and explain why they are contradictions.
"living consciousness": redundancy, I do not know of any other type of consciousness (if you're going to bring up AI, don't bother, that's a whole different discussion that we could argue for weeks and neither of us would ever really be right or wrong)
"perpetually happy": oxymoron, happyness is a state that only exists if you know what unhappyness is, therefor you can't be happy if you haven't been unhappy.
And to conclude this monster of a post with a little redundancy of my own. Satisfaction means there was a need to be filled in the first place, that need requires an economy or sorts. Also, unless everyone is a clone, man will never be made equal, a huge noble lie that most still do not truly grasp, and that inequality will insure jealousy, greed and competition. Communism didn't work for a similar reason, once you're comfortable, you stop, you stop everything.
"Satisfaction: act of fulfilling a desire or need or appetite."
without needs, desires or an appetite, you are essentially doomed to never be satisfied, and with needs, desires and an apetite, you are doomed to quest for that satisfaction, eternaly.
I guess inaminate objects can't be satisfied because they have no needs or desires. But in essence that is the greatest peace one can achieve and so, death, imo, is not only a sure eventuality, but also the greatest release from pain, suffering and doubt.
I am sure that a lot of what I said is very debatable, if not blatantly wrong, but not because I have ommited logic, but because language is so limited and getting my notions across is extremely difficult. We are what we define ourselves to be though, so there's really no good/bad/right/wrong among the living. Our opinions, based on our experience is all we have and all we have comes from what we have sought. We seak because we desire, and we desire because we are not satisfied. bam
Coolness: 510300
