Okay Now.... Wtf?!
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Samwise replied on Sat Mar 28, 2009 @ 8:38pm |
 Coolness: 133950 | 'Canadian Health Care may have killed British actress Natasha Richardson?'
[ www.nypost.com ] CANADACARE MAY HAVE KILLED NATASHA Last updated: 3:51 am March 26, 2009 Posted: 2:47 am March 26, 2009 COULD actress Natasha Richardson's tragic death have been prevented if her skiing accident had occurred in America rather than Canada? Canadian health care de-emphasizes widespread dissemination of technology like CT scanners and quick access to specialists like neurosurgeons. While all the facts of Richardson's medical care haven't been released, enough is known to pose questions with profound implications. Richardson died of an epidural hematoma -- a bleeding artery between the skull and brain that compresses and ultimately causes fatal brain damage via pressure buildup. With prompt diagnosis by CT scan, and surgery to drain the blood, most patients survive. Could Richardson have received this care? Where it happened in Canada, no. In many US resorts, yes. Between noon and 1 p.m., Richardson sustained what appeared to be a trivial head injury while skiing at Mt. Tremblant in Quebec. Within minutes, she was offered medical assistance but declined to be seen by paramedics. But this delay is common in the early stages of epidural hematoma when patients have few symptoms -- and there is reason to believe her case wasn't beyond hope at that point. About three hours after the accident, the actress was taken to Centre Hospitalier Laurentien, in Sainte-Agathe-des-Monts, 25 miles from the resort. Hospital spokesman Alain Paquette said she was conscious upon reaching the hospital about 4 p.m. The initial paramedic assessment, travel time to the hospital and time she spent there was nearly two hours -- the crucial interval in this case. Survival rates for patients with epidural hematomas, conscious on arrival to a hospital, are good. Richardson's evaluation required an immediate CT scan for diagnosis -- followed by either a complete removal of accumulated blood by a neurosurgeon or a procedure by a trauma surgeon or emergency physician to relieve the pressure and allow her to be transported. But Sainte-Agathe-des-Monts is a town of 9,000 people. Its hospital doesn't have specialized neurology or trauma services. It hasn't been reported whether the hospital has a CT scanner, but CT scanners are less common in Canada. Compounding the problem, Quebec has no helicopter services to trauma centers in Montreal. Richardson was transferred by ambulance to Hospital du Sacre-Coeur, a trauma center 50 miles away in Montreal -- a further delay of over an hour. Because she didn't arrive at a facility capable of treatment (with the diagnosis perhaps still unknown) until six hours after the injury, in all likelihood by that time the pressure buildup was fatal. The Montreal hospital could not have saved her life. Her initial refusal of medical care accounted for only part of the delay. She was still conscious when seen at a hospital and her death might have been prevented if the hospital either had the resources to diagnose and institute temporizing therapy, or air transport had taken her quickly to Montreal. What would have happened at a US ski resort? It obviously depends on the location and facts, but according to a colleague who has worked at two major Colorado ski resorts, the same distance from Denver as Mt. Tremblant is from Montreal, things would likely have proceeded differently. Assuming Richardson initially declined medical care here as well, once she did present to caregivers that she was suffering from a possible head trauma, she would've been immediately transported by air, weather permitting, and arrived in Denver in less than an hour. If this weren't possible, in both resorts she would've been seen within 15 minutes at a local facility with CT scanning and someone who could perform temporary drainage until transfer to a neurosurgeon was possible. If she were conscious at 4 p.m., she'd most likely have been diagnosed and treated about that time, receiving care unavailable in the local Canadian hospital. She might've still died or suffered brain damage but her chances of surviving would have been much greater in the United States. American medicine is often criticized for being too specialty-oriented, with hospitals "duplicating" too many services like CT scanners. This argument has merit, but those criticisms ignore cases where it is better to have resources and not need them than to need resources and not have them. Cory Franklin is a physician who lives outside of Chicago. 2009 Chicago Tribune; distributed by Tribune Media Services. Update » Samwise wrote on Sat Mar 28, 2009 @ 8:49pm Those Rednecks can blame Canada all they want, but eventhough our Health system is only in 30th position in the World Health Org's Global Ranking... their 37th position is far more eloquent. |
| I'm feeling sweet berry wine!! right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Screwhead replied on Sat Mar 28, 2009 @ 8:47pm |
 Coolness: 686515 | honestly, I wouldn't be surprised. When my chrons was starting up and I had no idea wtf was wrong with me, I went to the ER three times..
Now when it comes to health problems, I've got a fairly high tollerance to pain, and I don't go see a doctor for no good reason.. I spent 2 months in intensive care when I was 13 with body-wide internal hemoraging.. So if I go to see a doctor, let alone go to the ER of a hospital, something is WRONG! I went in because it felt like something had ruptured in my abdomen. I was in so much pain I though I had minutes to live if I didn't get treated right away.. 5 hours after showing up I finally got to see a doctor about it. Now this is at 1am that I went in; there were a grand total of 4 other people in the ER and no emergencies came in by ambulance, but we were all waiting over an hour each for what really seemed like no good reason.. Much as I love the free healthcare, they seriously need to do something about their response time and how the staff handles things. |
| I'm feeling your norks right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» AlienZeD replied on Sun Mar 29, 2009 @ 12:55am |
 Coolness: 510485 | Originally Posted By SCREWHEAD
honestly, I wouldn't be surprised. When my chrons was starting up and I had no idea wtf was wrong with me, I went to the ER three times.. Now when it comes to health problems, I've got a fairly high tollerance to pain, and I don't go see a doctor for no good reason.. I spent 2 months in intensive care when I was 13 with body-wide internal hemoraging.. So if I go to see a doctor, let alone go to the ER of a hospital, something is WRONG! I went in because it felt like something had ruptured in my abdomen. I was in so much pain I though I had minutes to live if I didn't get treated right away.. 5 hours after showing up I finally got to see a doctor about it. Now this is at 1am that I went in; there were a grand total of 4 other people in the ER and no emergencies came in by ambulance, but we were all waiting over an hour each for what really seemed like no good reason.. Much as I love the free healthcare, they seriously need to do something about their response time and how the staff handles things. which hospital did you go to? Btw I feel the same, but I also get the very real and very tragic and yet truthful feeling that in most hospitals, where people die all the time, they really don't have any specific care for their patients... like my doctor who sewed my hand up said that if he had any doubt whatsoever that there was still glass in my hand, he'd XRay it. He didn't. There was. There still is, so I guess my point is that medical institutions don't provide medical miracles, they are as flawed as every human and most of the time, you are fucked. |
| I'm feeling will dj for money right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Gamos replied on Sun Mar 29, 2009 @ 2:05am |
 Coolness: 94420 | who is natasha richardson? |
| I'm feeling apathetic right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» v.2-1 replied on Sun Mar 29, 2009 @ 7:22am |
 Coolness: 160045 | For crying out loud : [ tinyurl.com ]
3 months ago, I went to Jean-Talon hospital for my gf because she was hyperventilating and had a lot of difficulty breathing (her lungs were slowly filling up with mucus). We went there a mondane tuesday at 2pm. We saw a doctor for a grand total of 10 minutes to which he concluded that she couldn't breathe properly, a diagnosis I could've produce myself without any fucking medical knowledge, and prescribed her some medication which she couldn't even get at the drug store since it took a grand fucking total of 9 hours to see him and drug stores were closed. 9 fucking hours of waiting when you can't breathe. Forget my sore ass on the absolutely shitty emergency waiting room chairs, 9 hours of gasping for air is unfuckingacceptable. There must've been only one E.R. doctor on duty that day. Why ? 10 hours waiting time isn't justification enough to page a doctor so we can set his fucking golfing game aside a bit and help those he's paid to help ? In these relatively quiet times, we are treated to totally unfuckingjustified waiting times. Now, let's pretend for a minute a natural disaster were to occur on this island, DO YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM WOULD BE ABLE TO HANDLE THIS ? Fuck, we can't treat patients when NOTHING DRASTIC IS GOING ON, how the fuck are Montreal hospitals going to cope with a flash flood, tornado, building collapse, terrorist attack or even another ice storm for fuck's sake ? I'm sorry but free health care shouldn't mean we have show up at the hospital a good 12 hours before even getting injured to assure you don't bleed to death in the waiting room before you get to see a nurse. |
| I'm feeling like nico bellic right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» AlienZeD replied on Sun Mar 29, 2009 @ 3:01pm |
| Coolness: 510485 | they jump at the opportunity to help if you:
-are screaming your head off -native -bleeding on their floors anything else and you might as well stay home |
| I'm feeling will dj for money right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» v.2-1 replied on Sun Mar 29, 2009 @ 3:11pm |
| Coolness: 160045 | Originally Posted By ALIENZED
they jump at the opportunity to help if you: -are screaming your head off -native -bleeding on their floors anything else and you might as well stay home Sadly enough, QFT. |
| I'm feeling like nico bellic right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Nathan replied on Sun Mar 29, 2009 @ 5:33pm |
 Coolness: 167470 | Originally Posted By ALIENZED
they jump at the opportunity to help if you: ... -bleeding on their floors ... i bet the janitor gets to you before a doctor does :p |
| I'm feeling you up right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» system_glitch replied on Sun Mar 29, 2009 @ 5:37pm |
 Coolness: 163425 | Originally Posted By N.A
i bet the janitor gets to you before a doctor does :p I can so imagine the janitor placing a bucket under your seat and sitting beside you to mop the floor every 5 minutes while you wait a)certain death or b)seeing someone. |
| I'm feeling laundering karma right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» recoil replied on Sun Mar 29, 2009 @ 6:03pm |
 Coolness: 87430 | Originally Posted By ALIENZED
which hospital did you go to? Btw I feel the same, but I also get the very real and very tragic and yet truthful feeling that in most hospitals, where people die all the time, they really don't have any specific care for their patients... like my doctor who sewed my hand up said that if he had any doubt whatsoever that there was still glass in my hand, he'd XRay it. He didn't. There was. There still is, so I guess my point is that medical institutions don't provide medical miracles, they are as flawed as every human and most of the time, you are fucked. well the doctor you saw was obviously incompetent and that kind of "treatment" is unacceptable. I agree nobody should have to be kept waiting to receive medical care. and yes, there are some doctors who are going to be incompetent and have terrible "bed-side manner" but there are also doctors who do a phenomenal job under a great deal of pressure, day-in, day-out let's not paint all doctors with the same brush. as in any other field, there are exceptionally bad ones and exceptionally good ones |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» cutterhead replied on Sun Mar 29, 2009 @ 6:10pm |
 Coolness: 132520 | i never expect to see a doctor the same day when i end up in a hospital.
the fastest service i received was when they had to stich me up. still then i ended spending 2 hours waitin & squirting blood. the rest of the time , when its not gore all around , the average is 18 hours waiting and max time i did there once was 28 hours. im still against a paying system thou, the americans (us) dont envy our system for nothing. better wait, than having no service at all because of your "background". ( they lookup your salary and if your not a gold mine then chances are your better off going to see a mechanic or a vet or the getto's shaman) |
| I'm feeling 4hz even if you dont right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Omni replied on Sun Mar 29, 2009 @ 9:41pm |
 Coolness: 88500 | Some of you seem to blame the doctors for the problems with our healthcare and even for the waiting times, even implying that they don't work hard enough. Maybe you guys should know that the doctors that work here are probably as much a victim of the system as the patients, because they have to work with limited resources and regulations and quotas that don't make sense. Even worst, some people will unload their frustration on them after waiting for a long time even though they have nothing to do with that.
I don't think that the doctors have to take it upon themselves and work around the clock for free just so people can wait less. We just have to put more resources and try to avoid having all our newly formed doctors go work elsewhere. |
| I'm feeling yay right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» cutterhead replied on Sun Mar 29, 2009 @ 9:50pm |
| Coolness: 132520 | i just said i don6 expect to see em the same day, you see me saying anywhere : "thoses f* tards let me die in the hallway ? "
i have a personnal experience where 8 doctors failed in a row, and a time i saw an intern bump a cart of xray that fell all scattered on the floor. and shuffled em all back randomly in a pile and quickly walk away to be shure no one spotted his terrible mistake. the hospital closed and reopened a town away, they had multiple medical errors cause of it. i was bless to see it live while sitting next to my morphin-ed gf in the hallway. i dont blame doctors i blame people with no judgement. and the fact that it addsup and isnt benificial for no-one but the emplyee that doenst take his job seriously ( job before him/her ). beside thoses ppl that should have never been born i like having them around ( except psychiatrist for forcin a suit on me one time i shared my view of the world ) |
| I'm feeling 4hz even if you dont right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Nathan replied on Sun Mar 29, 2009 @ 10:12pm |
| Coolness: 167470 | it's true that the article is trying a little too hard to bash our 'socialist hospital system'...maybe we lack resources, but it's 'cause of lack of funds, funds that go into the military instead of caring for our own citizens.
The problem isn't our health care system, nor the fact that it's pretty much free, the problem is cash. what the article fails to mention is that if the person who bashed their head was poor, they would've died anyway. funny how the americans blame us when we would have more money for hospitals if we weren't spending it all helping them fight their wars. |
| I'm feeling you up right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Holly_Golightly replied on Sun Mar 29, 2009 @ 11:20pm |
 Coolness: 159660 | i was in nyc this week end and got so piss at breakfast when i read that article!
this is obviously an article in a journal which is republican and owned by people of interest who have their own agenda/ the whole article seems to me bs propaganda made to scared americans of a universal health care system/// for sure the actress would have been saved done the acident would have happen in colorado! she's full of cash and can pay for the best treatments that's for sure! bhaha the system in quebec is not perfect but still one of the best and most accessible in america.. believe me rarely someone wait hours when it is a real emergency in quebec.. i know my father is dying at the moment and need to be transported often by ambulance to threat life threatening condition.. and he doesn't wait.. the system provide him w/ a person who help my mother and him around the house... she can have a break once in a while and he can go stay at a good instay patient place which he like to be at.. but i do remember one time i got to the hospital w/ a beg. of pneumonia and i waited for hours... it was a pain but i was not like going to die in the next 10 hours so you know what??? i fucking suck it up thinking about all the peeps out of canada who cannot have care like quebecois... i thought about the fight that my quebecois ancestors did for me to be able to see a doctor for free or almost nothing! my cousin is doctor at the emergency.. she's doing her residency at the moment and work very hard and have an excellent education.. i don't think the doctors are to blame for the actual status quo.. |
| I'm feeling hitched right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Mico replied on Sun Mar 29, 2009 @ 11:44pm |
 Coolness: 151385 | This whole article is ridiculous. How dare that person criticize our entire healthcare system over her death!
Originally Posted By SAMWISE
Could Richardson have received this care? Where it happened in Canada, no. In many US resorts, yes. BULLSHIT! The hospital in Sainte-Agathe has a CT scanner! And are you telling me that that neurosurgeons are available anywhere and everywhere in the U.S? With all do respect, she died for two reasons: 1) She was an inexperienced skier who wasn't wearing a helmet, 2) she initially refused treatment. I know our system is not perfect, but to write that CANADACARE MAY HAVE KILLED NATASHA is uncalled for. In this case, there are definitely some gaps. Maybe having a Medical Helicopters available in Québec could have made a difference, maybe not. Who knows? Update » Mico wrote on Sun Mar 29, 2009 @ 11:47pm Originally Posted By BETTY_HAZE
the whole article seems to me bs propaganda made to scared americans of a universal health care system/// Totally. |
| I'm feeling cool right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» recoil replied on Sun Mar 29, 2009 @ 11:45pm |
| Coolness: 87430 | my dad has been a specialist in Internal medicine and Endocrinology since before I was born, and he bends over backwards to make sure patients get the best care. and it is very tough work at times - he's seen it all in the Emergency room, and doin the rounds in the hospital
he gets patients referred to him all the time. he is also good at referring patients to the very best specialists ASAP and circumventing all the delays and bullshit people have to put up with. He even gives out his home phone number to patients and does house calls from time to time at night, which is very rare in this day and age, believe me I'd be curious to hear what he thinks of that article. there's a big difference in being referred to a doctor with decades of expertise in their field and just being slotted in for an appointment with some random doctor who may be quite new or not qualified. some people aim to become doctors for the status and for the paycheque. I certainly met a few like that in Uni. they have no place in Medicine getting the right doctors to oversee your treatment and follow it up can literally make the difference between life and death |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Gamos replied on Mon Mar 30, 2009 @ 12:35am |
| Coolness: 94420 | Originally Posted By OMNI
Some of you seem to blame the doctors for the problems with our healthcare and even for the waiting times, even implying that they don't work hard enough. Its everyones faults, including the doctors. The medical association, which is made up of doctors, purposely makes exams near impossible for foreign doctors, and limits med school entrance applications for new doctors, because that limits the supply of new doctors, thus increasing the wages for existing doctors. But obviously tax payers and governments are also part of the problem for not wanting to hire + train more doctors at existing salaries. :) |
| I'm feeling apathetic right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Nathan replied on Mon Mar 30, 2009 @ 12:42am |
| Coolness: 167470 | Originally Posted By GAMOS
Its everyones faults ... hey, what did i do? :p |
| I'm feeling you up right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Mico replied on Mon Mar 30, 2009 @ 12:49am |
| Coolness: 151385 | Originally Posted By N.A
hey, what did i do? :p The real question is: What DIDN'T you do, N.A? |
| I'm feeling cool right now.. | |
Okay Now.... Wtf?!
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