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Dnb / Jungle Question
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» v.2-1 replied on Sun Nov 16, 2008 @ 10:27am |
 Coolness: 159805 | I'm nowhere near a reference on the subject but I've been listening to and spinning electronic music since 1986 or so and I went through a LOT of style phases through the ages and have grown quite accustomed to notice the subtle differences in various styles...
... still, I remember listening to jungle waaaaaay before DnB. And yes, I am adamant they are two different and distinct styles. I always felt DnB was created to catter to those who just couldn't handle ( or disliked ) how messed up and irregular jungle sounded originally. But regardless of that fact, DnB seemed to have grown to a much deeper and mature iteration of itself over the ages as opposed to jungle which still pretty much uses the same amen breaks, 909s and 808s today, which is GOOD mind you, just not as diverse as DnB I feel. BTW, for people still confused about the differences, video 1 here is what I feel as being JUNGLE and video 2 as DRUM & BASS. Please correct me if I am wrong. :) JUNGLE Murderbot - Rub-A-Dub Soldier Notice just in the 30 first seconds how all-over-the-place the beat is. That alone I feel defines the jungle sound (and this track is recent, not from 1992 or something) : DRUM&BASS High Contrast - Everything's Different It is so diverse and broad nowadays, it is very hard to come up with one video to define the genre (plz don't chastise me for my selection). Just notice how structured and regular the beat is. This is usually indicative of DnB. |
| I'm feeling fallout 3 right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Blisss replied on Sun Nov 16, 2008 @ 10:41am |
 Coolness: 130405 | What about all the experimental guys where do they fit in?
I remember when guys like Aphex, Plug and Squarepusher started making dnb Their shit took a while to get accepted by dnb headz. I remember trying to get jungle kids into that stuff back in day at Noize and they'd be like "Thats not dnb" , even though some of those tunes are definitely dnb! |
| I'm feeling bass heavy right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» greatjob replied on Sun Nov 16, 2008 @ 10:52am |
 Coolness: 283140 | nah D'n'B follows a strict formula, so do new-school breaks/electro & dubstep.
Aphex & the likes have no borders, their tunes having too many offbeat and sporatic change ups. They're are also often too fast to mix with D'n'B. That's why they aren't considered mainline D'n'B but more experimental. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» v.2-1 replied on Sun Nov 16, 2008 @ 10:55am |
| Coolness: 159805 | Well, in every genre, you get the occasional artists who are hellbent on breaking the mold and exploring the boundaries of the style they have been tagged with... and I believe they are doing a bang up job of it too.
In fact, we NEED artists to try and redefine various styles all over again. It keeps the said style fresh. As for acceptance from jungle kids, well, purists can be found in every musical genre and I find it a bit sad that they seem to want to close themselves off from exploring other avenues because " this ain't DnB so it's shit and I don't listen to shit music ". In fact, me, you and most people I know do go out of their ways to find such artists as Aphex Twin, Squarepusher and such because the twist they apply to a certain style is always unbelievably interesting. And for a producer, listening to these guys usually result in " holy shit, why didn't I think of doing something like that ? " which I believe is primordial since it helps them strive to achieve a broader sound instead of following the same formula. |
| I'm feeling fallout 3 right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Blisss replied on Sun Nov 16, 2008 @ 11:10am |
| Coolness: 130405 | I agree,
I mean you wouldn't have had nu skool breaks to begin with if some cats hadn't decided they wanted to do breaks a little different then what came before. Same goes for dubstep, just guys trying to do something fresh And remember when Windowlicker came out? No one knew what the fuck that track was it was so strange Listen to it today, its sounds way ahead of its time :) Especially with all these breaks and electro producers nowadays trying to come up with that fidgety sound. |
| I'm feeling bass heavy right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» v.2-1 replied on Sun Nov 16, 2008 @ 12:39pm |
| Coolness: 159805 | Indeed.
And as much as I once was a purist back then, I've come to realize that a lot of subgenres were created because of guys and gals like these. Me, I see this as other ways of catering to a need. It's fun that, for people who like DnB but find it too fast, someone came up with a style that suits them. The more the merrier. :) |
| I'm feeling fallout 3 right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» rawali replied on Sun Nov 16, 2008 @ 1:22pm |
 Coolness: 141370 | I always considered guys like aphex twin and venitian snares and the likes to be more breakcore or IDM than D'n'B or jungle... it pushes the jungle mixed-up trashiness with d'n'b's clean as fuck production...
what do you guys think? |
| I'm feeling dope right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» sabinonstop replied on Sun Nov 16, 2008 @ 1:31pm |
 Coolness: 93115 | back in da day people would call that shit anti-drum and bass lol |
| I'm feeling ladansedescanards right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Gamos replied on Sun Nov 16, 2008 @ 3:38pm |
 Coolness: 94180 | Originally Posted By UFOT
jungle came first... DnB is the angry and loud child of jungle... after years of doing too much xtc, the dark side crept in and created a drum and bass monster... I like the way that dnb was explained in Modulations... which btw gamos, you should watch if you want to learn about electronic music... or just keep asking fred questions :) Ufot-headaches? yes, several... [ www.amazon.ca ] is that what ur referring to? |
| I'm feeling empty right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Blisss replied on Sun Nov 16, 2008 @ 5:59pm |
| Coolness: 130405 | Originally Posted By SABINONSTOP
back in da day people would call that shit anti-drum and bass lol Some people did, I didn't, I hate formulaic music... I remember when nu skool breaks started, it was fresh, innovative and exciting Then it just turned into a formula with all these boring kids who all played the same tracks from the same labels in order to "fit in". Nowadays you couldn't even pay me to sit through more than an hour of same sounding generic music ...especially if played by djs who are obessed with conforming rather then pushing the envelope |
| I'm feeling bass heavy right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» recoil replied on Sun Nov 16, 2008 @ 7:15pm |
 Coolness: 87190 | Originally Posted By SCREWHEAD
1: came from Reggae 2: the dressing, as it was a holdover from the reggae crowd 3: jungle was originaly made/listened to by people from poor black neighborhoods; lots of gang-fighting, considered it their own kind of urban warfare. [ en.wikipedia.org ] I haven’t checked that wikipedia site... but if you got your info from there, the guy who did the article doesn’t know what he is talking about. Check sites like [ jungle-tekno.com ] hardcorewillneverdie, back2theoldskool etc for some serious knowledge (and great music on there too) 1. nah. they just sampled the word "junglist" off of soundclash tapes. it refers to the Jungle - a a neighbourhood of Kingston. but the people who made hardcore jungle music were not part of the reggae scene, nor were they from "the jungle" - they were Londoners... it's just a sample 2. I know plenty of original jungle crew who never wore camo. first jungle parties I went to - late 93, you saw all kinds of different people and styles. they were raves - people mashed on E having fun. 3. lots of people who made jungle were of Jamaican ancestry, but the music was for everyone, white, brown, black, whatever. . some early jungle pioneers... Photek, Phantasy, Rob Playford, Tango & Ratty, Sean O'Keefe (2 bad Mice, Deep Blue), Andy C, Dan Donelly, - these are all white dudes .. you got Gavin Cheung (Nookie/ Cloud 9) of Chinese background, - so many more I could list. all these guys made some of the best cutting edge hardcore and jungle. it was inner-city London music the original jungle crew came out of the acid house and breabeat techno raves in England. look at Fabio and Grooverider - they were mashing it down at acid house parties in the 80s. Goldie... was a b-boy from the 80s, started going to breakbeat hardcore parties and boom... jungle is not from reggae. nobody in the reggae scene was down with jungle. much later you got this new breed of "junglists". all they listen to is jungle reggae and hip hop. corny homophobic white kids who think house is "bhatty boy-music" ... they associate all this Selessie I Lion of Judah rah rah rah with jungle, but it wasn't like that. these dudes just have a fetish for Jamaican men or something I love the Modulations documentary, but I thought their representation of the origin of jungle was piss-poor. .. well at least they had the good sense to interview Rob Playford, but... they get this guy DB from Breakbeat Science saying it came from hip hop.. then they cut over to a video from the 70s of dudes breakdancing with some horrible commerical jump-up shite playing over top. If they wanna interview the Breakbeat Science crew, they shoulda talked to Dara instead. that guy has crazy knowledge of the roots. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Blisss replied on Sun Nov 16, 2008 @ 7:22pm |
| Coolness: 130405 | Originally Posted By RECOIL
I love the Modulations documentary but I thought their representation of the origin of jungle was piss-poor. they get this guy DB from Breakbeat Science saying it came from hip hop.. then they cut over to a video of dudes breakdancing to some horrible commerical jump-up shite. If they interviewd the Breakbeat Science crew, they shoulda talked to Dara instead. that guy has crazy knowledge of the roots. The thing is when Uk breakbeat started they were actually sampling a lot of breaks from American hip hop records and speeding them up. Thats why there is a connection to hip hop. What Db was saying in the movie is that uk breakbeat and jungle were kindof like a British version of BBoy music. Even today in breaks, dnb or dubstep you can see influences that originally started in hip hop, from the MCing, to the sampling and cutting of breakbeats, and even in the fashion. |
| I'm feeling bass heavy right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» recoil replied on Sun Nov 16, 2008 @ 9:10pm |
| Coolness: 87190 | ya I hear ya. Tango, Grooverider for instance, their names came from when they were b-boys in the 80s. but i thought it was a bit misleading, cuz he doesnt mention that these breakbeats were being layered over a fusion of house and hardcore techno.
and the track they play is such commerical wank - that was not the origin, it's a track from years later when jump-up was king. not a real representation of the roots - that was jsut a hip hop fad. check these clips -> they shoulda played this shit in Modulations instead. these were some big tunes gettin a lot of play in the early 90s. you can obviously hear the breaks you mentioned but it's a very unique distinct sound they were making. hardcore jungle tekno. I fucking love this music ! Sacred - Do it Together - 1993 Ruff Rider (Wishdokta) - You and Me - 1992 Noise Factory - Futuroid - 1992 Xenophobia (Wishdokta) - Rush in the House - 1992 Cloud 9 - You got Me Burning - Ray keith and Nookie remix - 1993 =) |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» rawali replied on Mon Nov 17, 2008 @ 1:32pm |
| Coolness: 141370 | intresting! I'm learning!
go on |
| I'm feeling dope right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» DrGonzo replied on Mon Nov 17, 2008 @ 1:54pm |
 Coolness: 266640 | those chipmunk voices make me so happy. |
| I'm feeling decibels au kilo right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» ufot replied on Mon Nov 17, 2008 @ 1:54pm |
 Coolness: 93785 | to GAMOS ~ Ya man, thats the movie I was talkin about, you can pick it up at boite noire they usually have dvd copies for sale or you can just buy it online... I agree that the origins of jungle arent that deep, but panaseea's interview was awesome...
Recoil - nice audio posts, some serious classics in there, got some goose bumps while sifting... Ufot-rbot type 1 for mass hysteria |
| I'm feeling haxin an milkin all right now.. | |
Dnb / Jungle Question
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