Paying The Dj
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» ricarda33 replied on Tue Jul 8, 2008 @ 9:39pm |
 Coolness: 29635 | . |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» fishead replied on Tue Jul 8, 2008 @ 11:14pm |
 Coolness: 76345 | Originally Posted By UFOT
Personally, from my experience as a promotor, bringing people to the event was my JOB, and if the dj`s I chose to book helped in the cause, then awesome, but that was not MY motivation for booking them, nor was I counting on their draw, as a promotor, our crew brought the people and big-up`d every dj to extreme hype, both those known and unknown... In my opinnion, booking a dj based only on their draw power is a dangerous game, a game which has burned a lot of promoters and organizers... booking a DJ based only on their draw power (which has usually been established by other promoters) - is something that I've often referred to as 'lazy promoting'... it's this whole attitude of "that guy brought in X number of people for that party, so I'll book him for mine and then I only have to spread the word, and don't have to do as much work to hype people up for my event." That, however, goes on pretty much everywhere. |
| I'm feeling new records right now.. | |
| Good [+2]Toggle ReplyLink» basdini replied on Tue Jul 8, 2008 @ 11:29pm |
 Coolness: 145875 | Originally Posted By VERSION2MINUS1 I THOUGHT A PROMOTER WAS IN CHARGE OF PROMOTING AND A DJ WAS IN CHARGE OF DJING ?
i've always thought that the term 'promoter' was a bit of a mis-nomer (hey that rhymes!), i think events co-oridinator or organizer is probobly more in line with what he does, let's be honest, making sure everything goes off without a hitch like clock work is much harder than flyering for an event... i think we keep confusing two things here, no one is suggesting that a performer with a pre decided and agreed upon rate for his performance should not be paid when a party doesn't go well, i think even the shadiest of promoter would be hard pressed to agree that this ok. With regards to performers getting people to come, i don't think anybody is suggesting that they have to do that, but, their name on a flyer should encourage people to come to see them play, if not, why put the people playing on the flyer at all. Certain things with regards to how much a performer gets paid should be obvious... -the amount of gigs they've played and years they've been playing -do they have released material under their name (dub plates, records, CDs) -have they toured, been to other places to do their thing. One of the reasons that the rave scene may be in decline in montreal (maybe not the only reason) is that the economic model is not really viable, look at the situation, 1) the owners of the spots are wise to our game they know that the market favors them (there aren't as many spots, especially good ones anymore) so they charge crazy rates, 2) every dj wants to get paid as much as possible for every gig (nothing wrong with this per se), 3) people who come to parties want awesome sound, crazy lights, wicked deco, out of this world healiners, and they want to pay 5$ at the door, it's so bad with this last point that people sometimes argue with you if the party is $15 to get in for $10 or try to get a group rate for 4 or 5 people (think about it, if you tried to do that at just about any other event concert, club etc they would just laugh at you) All i'm saying is something has to give if this shit is going to continue...either you need promoters who are ridiculously wealthy that don't care about losing money, performers who agree to play for less, or party goers who agree to pay $30-50 for something that is $10-$15 now. If you want to have a scene then things really do have to change, if not it's just gonna be like a lot of other places where all you have is crappy club nights. I just feel like sometimes everbody thinks that after a party promoters just have mountains of cash and are railing lines of blow off strippers asses, it's just really not like that. |
| I'm feeling surly right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» ONE.LAB.RAT replied on Wed Jul 9, 2008 @ 12:38am |
 Coolness: 76815 | Originally Posted By FISHEAD BOOKING A DJ BASED ONLY ON THEIR DRAW POWER (WHICH HAS USUALLY BEEN ESTABLISHED BY OTHER PROMOTERS) - IS SOMETHING THAT I'VE OFTEN REFERRED TO AS 'LAZY PROMOTING'... IT'S THIS WHOLE ATTITUDE OF "THAT GUY BROUGHT IN X NUMBER OF PEOPLE FOR THAT PARTY, SO I'LL BOOK HIM FOR MINE AND THEN I ONLY HAVE TO SPREAD THE WORD, AND DON'T HAVE TO DO AS MUCH WORK TO HYPE PEOPLE UP FOR MY EVENT." THAT, HOWEVER, GOES ON PRETTY MUCH EVERYWHERE.
that's the point... there are lots of underated dj that are fucken good & nobody nows nobody cares. you give them a good time slot and after 10 minutes he rock the place. have a open mind & think outside of the box, be a good promoter and ppl will be talking about your rave 10 years later. |
| I'm feeling like bacon right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» rawali replied on Wed Jul 9, 2008 @ 1:47am |
 Coolness: 141360 | Originally Posted By SMOG
Originally Posted By fishead booking a DJ based only on their draw power (which has usually been established by other promoters) - is something that I've often referred to as 'lazy promoting'... it's this whole attitude of "that guy brought in X number of people for that party, so I'll book him for mine and then I only have to spread the word, and don't have to do as much work to hype people up for my event." That, however, goes on pretty much everywhere.
that's the point... there are lots of underated dj that are fucken good & nobody nows nobody cares. you give them a good time slot and after 10 minutes he rock the place. have a open mind & think outside of the box, be a good promoter and ppl will be talking about your rave 10 years later. +1! if i book a dj it aint cuz he brings people... its cuz he does good shit behind the decks... most of the time that goes hand in hand... but not always... |
| I'm feeling dope right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Nuclear replied on Wed Jul 9, 2008 @ 1:56am |
 Coolness: 2749315 | you can do a party for friends and stuff but chances are if that is happening no one is getting paid and everyone is doing it for the fun of it... this is about paying people... who should be paid and who should not be... i believe that you should get paid if you bring people and if you don't then chances are you're just mixing for the fun of it and should be happy to play on a great sound system in a nice atmosphere for free... |
| I'm feeling nuclear right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» fishead replied on Wed Jul 9, 2008 @ 2:43am |
| Coolness: 76345 | Originally Posted By NUCLEAR
you can do a party for friends and stuff but chances are if that is happening no one is getting paid and everyone is doing it for the fun of it... this is about paying people... who should be paid and who should not be... i believe that you should get paid if you bring people and if you don't then chances are you're just mixing for the fun of it and should be happy to play on a great sound system in a nice atmosphere for free... Anyhow... I think we've been sidetracked here, because the discussion isn't about DJs getting booked - it's about DJs getting paid when they are. I mean, I understand the difficulties that go into promotion. I've done promotion... but even when parties didn't break even I always paid the talent. It seems like, in a lot of instances, the DJs are the last priority for promoters to pay. Most promoters would never consider not paying the venue, or not paying for the sound and lights... but for as far back as I can remember there have been nights where... "things didn't really go that well... we can't really afford to pay the DJs." Which is entirely unprofessional... and this shouldn't be taken as an attack on all promoters. I've worked for, and with people who did a great job and were entirely professional and responsible. The folks at the SAT have been great over the years, the crews behind Hitched and Kinetik and the Nossimist and Zygote parties were awesome... but at the same time, it's frustrating to show up for a gig and have someone say "we can't pay you - but here's two drink tickets." As others have mentioned, there are a lot of DJs in this city that don't get the recognition they deserve. In the hardcore scene alone there are multiple acts that have releases out and have international experience... and a lot of times it seems they're treated poorly at home. Anyhow... I stand by my claim that a DJs job isn't friend-whoring and making sure people show up at events... their job is furthering their craft, and helping to get the word out. |
| I'm feeling new records right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» moebius replied on Wed Jul 9, 2008 @ 3:07am |
 Coolness: 71220 | Ouuuhh I love this thread...
I'll answer first as Dj-Producer... I agree 100% with Nathan (Na). The promoter take the risk to give you the gig ... Nobody shows up ... too bad, that's your job -to do the line-up, -to assume the risks, -to pay your artists (Dj and Vj too). It's sooooo anoying too run after the promoter too be payed. Money is a sensitive point and an agreement should always be done before (It tooks me time to realise that !!!). The big probleme here in Montréal : the scene is small. Not enough people to fill the rooms clear all this problems of being payed But the wost is that people knows each others most of the time... This is why it's become complicated... The promoter didn't sell enough prevent so he's gonna pay you after, finally he have just enough to pay the headliner, you're a good guy, you do not want to put him in bankrupt... Find an agreement.. And you get fucked ... If at least the Dj-boot/setup/whatever-mix-spot was always good, then you can be happy to enjoy each minute of your set ... But everybody knows that half of the time there is something not working or not completely... I used too think that I play for free for all free parties I'm invited to play ... I'm still, but I ask for beer if you have a bar,and at least a good set-up!! We are not sharks and I enjoy playing-partying but it's true that if it start too cost me money too play (like cab, beer, your friend entrance) I don't think anymore that worth it... But sometimes it could worth it for exposure. And this is why we are underpayed most of the time. We want exposure !!! Now, as a producer, I started to ask more for a live than a mix, I give the choice, but I think it's normal... But I'm not charging more as a DJ, and I'M SOO PISSED OF when a Well-known producer is booked in Montréal and bring with him some CD instead of a laptop or HIS records hi makes.. and just do a set like anybody here could do if he got the same cds ... You pay the guy like more than 1000 $$ you're expected a minimum performance. Soo pay more a producer ok!! But only if it's for playing his (new and old) material !!!! Cause some producers sucks ass as Dj !! Now as a promoter : for paying events first, like in Saphir 2 wednesday a month : hardcore undergroud with DJ Mutante and myself(a little bit promo) It's 5$ at the door... We are paying the flyers and the artist, and got no $$$ from the bar ... We are giving a very correct amount to each invited DJ (once each time). Sometime we didn't make that much, we pay the Dj anyway... He is on the flyer... soo even if he brings not that much people, he at least bring the people who show up ... We (mutante and me)are not nices or particulary generous personnes, but we are Dj too and it seems like the most logical things to do! In a rave, it takes something like 2 or 3 paying entrance to pay a DJ like 60 $$ ... with a line up of locals of 10 dj, it takes 20-30 peoples. The DJ set is payed by your 2 friends comming to listen to you and had not been put on the guest list !!! Finally, that doesn't matter if you bring people with the flyer ou [ rave.ca ] you should be payed what'aggred or gived at least a descent number of people guest-list. Now as a member of NTK, and a "promoter" of 100% free events, we never payed anybody, but it's clear from the begining... We buy the sound-system, the generator, we are not taking a cent for us from organising our events... We are payed with our fun and yours ... May be it's stupid to organise party knowing that we are gonna loose money, but at least we are not inviting Djs thinking they are going to be payed (exept for beer or else). Cause, seriously, it's cool to be Dj... But do you guys care about the scene of Montréal, and it's evolution or just about your name beeing on a flyer, and your personnal "fame". And like sayed noha "it and should be happy to play on a great sound system in a nice atmosphere for free..." Exactly what I'm gonna do all the week-end at the Northtek-teknival (for-free). Soo The situations are always different and I say to all Dj : let's create a syndicate-guilde (je sais pas le mot en anglais)... no no kidding, but seriously, fucked over time is finish, voici venu le temps des cathedrales ou on va faire attention a ne pas jouer n'importe ou pour n'importe quoi, y'a plein de tits culs qui veulent commencer, laissons leur leur place pour se faire reconnaitre à ce genre d'events. Mais n'oubliez pas de venir jouer gratuit au teknival et camper au bord du lac ce week-end. Car avant tout on mix pour nous, et pour se faire plaisir, y'a déja 6 ou 7 stages-sound systemes d'annoncés. (fuck chui revenu en français). Puis fuck it je me remets a la guitare ! |
| I'm feeling unplugged right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Turtle replied on Wed Jul 9, 2008 @ 8:30am |
 Coolness: 68980 | UFOT ROCKS i have seen him promote and dj....he has a valid point!!!We go way back to the cloud parties..Those were good times! remember Nick? he worked his ass off not only djing but promoting!!And the parties were good....
I have been to parties were the dj's were no names local talent that u really didn't know their names at all and the party was amazing! hundreds of people... |
| I'm feeling sexy right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Holly_Golightly replied on Wed Jul 9, 2008 @ 10:35am |
 Coolness: 159410 | even if lost 400$ to the hand of i think everybody knows who... and still wait for a refound.. and have to change my venue// our crew all respected our engagement..
if the promoter see that the event gonna turn bad he should simply cacel as soon as possible.. |
| I'm feeling hitched right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» v.2-1 replied on Wed Jul 9, 2008 @ 12:21pm |
 Coolness: 159795 | Originally Posted By FISHEAD
It seems like, in a lot of instances, the DJs are the last priority for promoters to pay. Most promoters would never consider not paying the venue, or not paying for the sound and lights... but for as far back as I can remember there have been nights where... "things didn't really go that well... we can't really afford to pay the DJs." Indeed. Why is that ? I mean, say you throw a rave in a club and people barely get any drinks at all. You'll still pay the barmaid right ? I mean, they STILL offered drinks. Like Fishead said, sound and light people are STILL paid if NO ONE shows up, right ? Why not the DJ ? He/she STILL played as well, no ? So wtf ? Just like everybody else in the staff, that person showed up and offered the service that was agreed upon and they often get ZILCH for that. Why is that ? No offense to lighting people out there but they get hired for their skills as well and if there's only 20 people in the room, they shouldn't get paid either then. I mean, they dazzled only 20 people with their lighting skills, fuck that. I've seen many summer raves before where the coatcheck girl got paid ( it's 30 outside, who's got a fucking coat ? ) and not the DJs. Understanding this for me is a colossal fail. |
| I'm feeling murderbot.net right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» nothingnopenope replied on Wed Jul 9, 2008 @ 1:05pm |
 Coolness: 201900 | How about not paying venues because they "didn't bring in enough people", lets see if that works. |
| I'm feeling gangsta right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Rakoon replied on Wed Jul 9, 2008 @ 1:45pm |
 Coolness: 176115 | Because Djs don't have any organisation to defend there rights?
like l'union des artistes or something like that? |
| I'm feeling yaaaaaay! right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» regimental911 replied on Wed Jul 9, 2008 @ 1:52pm |
 Coolness: 134945 | if the promoter doesnt pay,he gets brought outside and kicked in the teeth,
thats my assurance d;artiste, |
| I'm feeling merkle right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Deadfunk replied on Wed Jul 9, 2008 @ 1:55pm |
 Coolness: 153680 | most of us i bet arent in union des artistes, caus you have to pay to be in it.
and djs are people, they are not buisness, so when the person rents the light, or the venue, its buisness, but people doesnt seem to think that way about the dj, but its the same! |
| I'm feeling hardcore right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» v.2-1 replied on Wed Jul 9, 2008 @ 1:59pm |
| Coolness: 159795 | Originally Posted By RAKOON
Because Djs don't have any organisation to defend there rights? like l'union des artistes or something like that? Heh. But, is there an organization for coatcheck people ? What about lighting ? They still get paid regardless. " L'Union des Techniciens en Entreposage Temporaire de Vêtements " has got a certain ring to it. LOL. |
| I'm feeling murderbot.net right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» fishead replied on Wed Jul 9, 2008 @ 2:09pm |
| Coolness: 76345 | Coalition of Organized Coat Keepers [COCK]
Organization Syndicale des Techniciens en Items Entreposés [OSTIE] |
| I'm feeling new records right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» MURDOCK_ROCK replied on Wed Jul 9, 2008 @ 2:09pm |
 Coolness: 84550 | well on that front...
you don't have to be in any sort of union to get paid. not to mention 95% of dj's don't claim shit on there taxes. |
| I'm feeling republican right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» clown replied on Wed Jul 9, 2008 @ 2:11pm |
 Coolness: 222440 | Originally Posted By NUCLEAR I'M NOT SAYING IF YOU ARE BOOKED THAT YOU SHOULD NOT GET PAID... I'M SAYING THAT I WOULD NOT BOOK A DJ WHO DOES NOT BRING PEOPLE UNLESS I WANTED THEM TO SPIN IN WHICH CASE I HAVE NO PROBLEMS PAYING THEM IF THAT IS THE AGREEMENT... YOU'RE ONLY WORTH TO ME WHAT YOU BRING, AND IF YOU CAN'T BRING PEOPLE THEN YOU DON'T GET BOOKED AND YOU DON'T GET PAID... SIMPLE... IF I SAY I WILL PAY SOMEONE I WILL... BUT I WILL NOT BOOK SOMEONE WHO I THINK WOULD NOT BRING PEOPLE.
with that mentality, it is a good thing you stopped throwing parties.. you should host free events where you get lots of people so you don't have to worry about your dj bringing people. i don't know about you, but the typical "rave-talk" would sound more like "hey, noah's throwing a party tonight, wanna hit it up?? who's playing at the party ? it doesn't matter, its noah's party". rather then, "Yo, there's this party Clown's playing at tonight. yeah, so? i saw him last week @ theotherparty .. yeah, i guess your right, i'd go if i knew the promotor but that no-name production sounds sketchy so i'll wait till his next gig. don't you think ?? |
| I'm feeling 16 year-old hotties right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Deadfunk replied on Wed Jul 9, 2008 @ 2:12pm |
| Coolness: 153680 | of course we dont, we would end up paying more in taxes than what we make, (because of 2nd "revennue")
unless your declared "travailleur autonome". which you cant have a full time job, so good luck! |
| I'm feeling hardcore right now.. | |
Paying The Dj
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