Anonymous Versus Scientology
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» moondancer replied on Mon Feb 11, 2008 @ 11:44am |
 Coolness: 93190 | Originally Posted By SCOTTYP COLOUR OF SKIN/ETHNICITY/WHATEVER IS SOMETHING YOU ARE BORN WITH; RELIGION IS A CHOICE. PEOPLE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO CRITICIZE OTHERS FOR WHETHER THEY CHOOSE TO FOLLOW A RELIGION OR NOT. THAT IS A FREEDOM THAT IS ESSENTIAL TO MAINTAIN IN A DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY WITH FREEDOM OF THOUGHT.
That's not completely true because people are pigeon-holed into the religion of their culture and if people hate people of one religion or another they're likely to apply it to the entire culture. Even though we have so called freedom of speech you're not allowed to hold a protest against black people, even though they can't chose and religious people can the same rules apply because just like skin colour, the things implied by religion are applied to the entire group of people they can't escape. One can argue "this many black people commit crimes a year, they have a choice yadayada" and even if they'd only be reffering to a certain few they're entire culture is affected by the accusations. Has someone forgotten what happened to the jews? Anti-religion results and translates to discrimination even though it might not seem like it to you, it didn't seem like it to nazi's either. Discrimination never seemed like discrimination to anyone who ever actually discriminated cause they all completely believed they were completely right. |
| I'm feeling bored right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» DCRn replied on Mon Feb 11, 2008 @ 12:10pm |
 Coolness: 159160 | Results of Montreal's Feb 10th protest. Protests were held all across the world in remembrance of Lisa McPherson's death.
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| I'm feeling 'sploded right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» nothingnopenope replied on Mon Feb 11, 2008 @ 3:18pm |
 Coolness: 202150 | Anti-religion results and translates to discrimination even though it might not seem like it to you, it didn't seem like it to nazi's either.
The jews weren't killed based on their religion, it was an ethnic reason. Even secular, non-religious jews who had 1 jewish grandparent were thrown into camps. The jewish people are unique though in that their religion and culture are combined in many ways. There is no christian race. There is no islamic race. There is no Buddhist race. ETC. religion doesn't have anything to do with race. |
| I'm feeling gangsta right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» basdini replied on Mon Feb 11, 2008 @ 7:30pm |
 Coolness: 146125 | "It treats the religiously devout as if they are children who need to be shielded, and does more to harm them than to help them."
i think it treats them like children to say that they are brainwashed, if i were to say that you are brainwashed by popular culture to be atheist you would certainly disagree, because atheism is 'correct' in your estimation compared to any religious view, you see converting them to atheism as helping them... I'm not so sure they would agree, you'll say it's because they are brainwashed to believe in their religion...You see how circular this type of argument is don't you? |
| I'm feeling surly right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» sabinonstop replied on Mon Feb 11, 2008 @ 9:07pm |
 Coolness: 93355 | i think it treats them like children to say that they are brainwashed, if i were to say that you are brainwashed by popular culture to be atheist you would certainly disagree, because atheism is 'correct' in your estimation compared to any religious view, you see converting them to atheism as helping them... I'm not so sure they would agree, you'll say it's because they are brainwashed to believe in their religion...You see how circular this type of argument is don't you?
Sabi says: excellent point.That's pretty much the feeling i had toward anonymous participants !!!Marilyn manson is no good anymore so let's attack tom & the church!!! Anyway it's just amazing how much lack of courage these guys have and taste (vendetta !!yaarkk ok maybe the comic) when i participated in a religious crusade in Los angeles we manifestated with no masks whatsoever and we were joined by many other different religions to fight for the right to beleive in whatever we want as long as we don't oppress others!I can understand being afraid of scientology's lawyers but ya for sure they were filming the protestors cause if you find it inside yourself to attack a peaceful religion who knows what else you could do! Cause if you feel your part of anonymous your pretty much a surpressor cause in fact you have no reality on the subject whatsoever! You seem like a pretty intelligent guy and i'm sure if you had the real picture you wouldn't do this at all! All i can say is that there is no force used against anybody,talked to my parents and they told me that people haved left the sea-org with no-problemo! All i can say is that scientologists are very nice people and are very humanistic! Wanted to come to come share some love and have my daughter pull down your scarves this sunday but could't make it! The real danger is people that beleive in nothing cause they got nothing to hope for! |
| I'm feeling family guy right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» DCRn replied on Mon Feb 11, 2008 @ 9:32pm |
| Coolness: 159160 | Hum, you really have to stop assuming I'm with Anonymous. I'm even surprised there WERE people in Montreal up for this. |
| I'm feeling 'sploded right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» nothingnopenope replied on Mon Feb 11, 2008 @ 9:35pm |
| Coolness: 202150 | I really wish I had the time to articulate my points better because you guys just don't get what I am writing.
What I was trying to explain was that shielding religious people from the opinions of those who disagree with organized religion is treating the religious like babies who can't think for themselves. That's it. I prefer to let them make their own choices. They don't have to agree with people like me, but I should be allowed to express my opinion. Being brainwashed doesn't mean you aren't smart, it just means you have to latch on to other people's ideas instead of thinking up your own. you see converting them to atheism as helping them
I've never said anything close to that. Also, it is impossible to convert someone to atheism. Atheism isn't a religion. There isn't anything to convert to. It's more of a removal of an unnecessary part of life. |
| I'm feeling gangsta right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» basdini replied on Mon Feb 11, 2008 @ 10:18pm |
| Coolness: 146125 | sorry scott but you're just playing word games with the conversion thing...what shall we call it when someone stops believing in their religion, oh yes like you said it's just 'removal of an unnecessary part of life', how convienient that this casts your position in a flattering light.
"Being brainwashed doesn't mean you aren't smart, it just means you have to latch on to other people's ideas instead of thinking up your own" you didn't create atheism it existed as a position before you were born how is this thinking for yourself then? What you'll say is that if people who are religious 'thought for themselves' they would come to the conclusion that being atheist is obviously right, if they don't then they are 'brainwashed' and need further convincing,anyone who made the choice to be religious is not thinking for themselves...again this is circular... You're problem is that you assert that thinking for yourself equals being atheist which isn't true, everyday that someone decides to keep believing in their religion they re-evaluate their faith and make the choice to continue to believe (or not to believe as happens sometimes), constant re-evaluation of what you believe is by definition thinking for yourself. you may not want to admit this, but you saying 'nothing could ever make me believe in any spiritualism' is just as dogmatic as someone who says ' nothing can shake my faith' |
| I'm feeling surly right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» nothingnopenope replied on Mon Feb 11, 2008 @ 10:53pm |
| Coolness: 202150 | Well I stated my opinions you don't have to agree with me. Nothing you said really inspires me to further explain myself in this horrible venue. |
| I'm feeling gangsta right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Screwhead replied on Tue Feb 12, 2008 @ 2:18am |
 Coolness: 686515 | |
| I'm feeling fuckin' crazy right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» sabinonstop replied on Tue Feb 12, 2008 @ 3:34pm |
| Coolness: 93355 | HMMMM as i can see haters go to a lot of trouble to exagerate
situations!But don't be fooled people will spend lotsa of time to destroy religions it's as fun as waisting your time playing doungeons and dragons! |
| I'm feeling family guy right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Mico replied on Tue Feb 12, 2008 @ 6:14pm |
 Coolness: 151385 | Wow... Seriously, on my way home, I was thinking the EXACT sane thing. You practically took the words out of my mouth. |
| I'm feeling cool right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» nothingnopenope replied on Tue Feb 12, 2008 @ 11:26pm |
| Coolness: 202150 | And how many people have been murdered in the name of fundamentalist Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, etc...
I don't see Anonymous protesting their places of worship... |
| I'm feeling gangsta right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» basdini replied on Wed Feb 13, 2008 @ 12:06am |
| Coolness: 146125 | but scott we (the west) are murdering people in the name of democracy how is that any better??? |
| I'm feeling surly right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» moondancer replied on Wed Feb 13, 2008 @ 9:05am |
| Coolness: 93190 | China has also murdered and opressed plenty of people in the name of atheism.
I mean we are talking about one of(if not THE) most opressive governments in the world here who also just so happens to be hardcore atheist so I'm sure atheism fixes everything. Hate and finger pointing fixes everything. |
| I'm feeling bored right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Screwhead replied on Wed Feb 13, 2008 @ 9:14am |
| Coolness: 686515 | Well, China has about 5 times the population of the US, and less than half the crime rate. Clearly they're doing SOMETHING right. |
| I'm feeling fuckin' crazy right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» DCRn replied on Wed Feb 13, 2008 @ 3:14pm |
| Coolness: 159160 | lulz |
| I'm feeling weird right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» moondancer replied on Wed Feb 13, 2008 @ 6:08pm |
| Coolness: 93190 | Is that so? Even if it wasn't simplistic to imply atheism had anything to do with it.
[ www.chinadaily.com.cn ] At the first world Buddhism forum in East China's Zhejiang Province last year, the Chinese government acknowledged the active role religion plays in building a harmonious society. "For example, religious beliefs have helped cut down crime to a large extent," said Liu. I also can't find which country exactly has the lowest crime rate per capita in the world but I've got a feel of the lowest and highest and I feel quite assured that it has nothing to do with religious adherance. In fact quite a few of the lowest are muslim and governed relgiously but there's not much pattern to it as you see not-so-religious countries at the bottom with them too and I don't know how religious or not reliogus most places are. It seems silly to compare any crime rate to the US anyway. That doesn't mean anything, China still doesn't have an outstandingly low crime rate. Also "crime" is too vague. Different things are crimes in different places. Also the U.S crime rate is even higher than it should be because people are more frequently caught and charged for their crimes. I think England actually has the worst crime rate in the world. Of course that's just reported crimes. [ mapsofworld.com ] [ mapsofworld.com ] [ mapsofworld.com ] [ law.jrank.org ] In fact none of the countries with the highest reported crimes are religious and most of the countries with lowest murder rates are heavily religious. So even if your comment wasn't irrelevant enough already it's purely empty now. Besides I think freedom of speech is pretty important too. |
| I'm feeling bored right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» DCRn replied on Wed Feb 13, 2008 @ 7:36pm |
| Coolness: 159160 | So if we read you correctly, China acknowledges that religion is important for a harmonious society and then commits crimes in the name of atheism? I must have missed something. |
| I'm feeling weird right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» moondancer replied on Wed Feb 13, 2008 @ 9:08pm |
| Coolness: 93190 | Yeah it's called politics. They're not that simple. And I don't see what it has to do with reading me unless you're implying I made something up. Ask Mr. Liu. |
| I'm feeling bored right now.. | |
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