How To Mix Better?
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Da_Hand replied on Mon Oct 30, 2006 @ 12:11pm |
 Coolness: 42950 | Originally Posted By SCREWHEAD
You obviously have absolutely no idea how frequencies and, especially bass, works. LOL, if you only knew... ...but please, explain further your theory of how bass frequencies work. Show me how I have no idea on the subject... If your bass frequencies are not the same or in the same key...
Did I mention dissonance? No, I believe not. Oh wait, my examples of basslines that may work together are in key, hmmmm.... |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» MURDOCK_ROCK replied on Mon Oct 30, 2006 @ 1:22pm |
 Coolness: 84785 | i've been reading alot about "key clashing" lately and its acctually pretty hard to find a good accurate read on it...
i've read on some sites written by random dj's that state frequencys in the same key cause phasing and some sites state the opposite. i play mostly by ear and i'm not trained so i'm a bad judge when it comes to theory... but i did find this chart on how to overlay keys in perfect harmony.... [ www.harmonic-mixing.com ] anyway... i found this site to be a pretty intersting read on the subject... [ www.harmonic-mixing.com ] |
| I'm feeling stuck in fat vagina right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Da_Hand replied on Mon Oct 30, 2006 @ 3:57pm |
| Coolness: 42950 | Nice chart :) Yeah, basically, if you want have two or more records on top of each other playing melodic lines (bass, vocals, synths, etc) then they need to be in complimentary keys to work well together. The easy thing about electronic dance-floor-bound music is that it does not have complicated keys and the melody lines usually stay well within those keys. Furthermore, the songs usually don't use all the notes of the key they are in and so the songs' harmonic content fits into many other keys = easier to mix.
One other thing to remember is that when a band plays together it needs to have all its instruments in-tune. So that when a bass plays the note E4 and the guitar plays the note E4, they are actually hitting the same frequency. If the guitar is out-of-tune, then no matter what they guitar player plays, it will not sound good with the bass. Now having said all that, there is one big issue with all of this when DJing. When you speed a record up or down on a turntable, you pitch said record up or down. Now if you pitch it up or down in a way that the same notes of record A fall at the same frequencies of record B - then the records are in tune, but this does not guarantee that they will be going at the same speed. Or vise versa, if the speed of your record A is the same as record B, it doesn't mean they are in-tune. If they do happen to be in tune at said speed, then you can look if their keys work together. Having records in tune is getting easier with the use of CD players or laptops, which are able to change the song's speed without changing its pitch. This at least guarantees the records are in-tune. For turntables, it works when the records are the same BPM or they happen to jump into the same tunning at different speeds - but the latter is a hit or miss thing. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» MURDOCK_ROCK replied on Mon Oct 30, 2006 @ 4:05pm |
| Coolness: 84785 | i saw this at a trade show (miac) a few years back...
i still wonder why it never caugt on? its a turntable with a key correction slider....  |
| I'm feeling stuck in fat vagina right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Bad_Chemistry replied on Mon Oct 30, 2006 @ 7:01pm |
 Coolness: 73995 | I think it's because most dj's know very little about musical theory. Sorry if I offended anybody...
And Da_hand, I'm pretty sure your wrong. Bass needs to be in a certain frequencie range... otherwise it's not bass. I do production and know about music theory. Let's say one bass line is let's say a C and another one is G, harmonically they'll work well together. In an ideal world where speakers are perfect this would sound pretty sweet, problem with bass notes is that for a speaker to reproduce them properly, it has to displace ALOT of air. To top it off bass atually has a pretty small sweet-spot, I think it's somewhere give or take from 75 to 150 Hz. If you try to compound two bass lines ontop of each-other (Unless your running some sick compressor), the bass frequencies will just double up on each other and blow those speakers out of the bins. As far as bass having holes... Run a spectrum analyzer on any bass sound and you'll see it's bs. Sounds usually have a pretty smooth frequencie curve. But your dead-on about the key thing... |
| I'm feeling annoyed right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Da_Hand replied on Mon Oct 30, 2006 @ 10:51pm |
| Coolness: 42950 | Ok, I see people are not following what I am saying or maybe I am not explaining it correctly. Here we go,
Once again, the "holes" I am referring to are the silences between notes. When you think of basslines, do they all have a continuous sustained bass notes or do some basslines have notes that actually stop sounding before the next note comes in. The answer is yes, there are both kinds of basslines or even a mix of both. DMTio, this should be familiar to you if you are in music production. If you have two syncopating basslines, one bassline can have notes occurring where the other bassline does not - wouldn't you agree? I am not saying all basslines will work well together, but there are ones which have accents and notes occurring at different positions in a musical bar. So you can have something like this for example: Bass 1: C_C_E_CCC_E_C_CC Bass 2: _C_D_C_E_C_D_C_E Most of the notes (except 2) are not sounding at the same time. Almost 90% of that run are notes not playing together at the same time and the ones that are sounding at the same time are at different frequencies. This would not drive any speaker very hard. Incidentally, when you speak of speakers, are you talking about home speakers, bar systems that are "so so" quality and are already over driven, or are you talking about pro gear in clubs with their own dedicated bass bins and compressors, which can handle power way above what is already playing through them? If your system is already being pushed to the edge, then anything layered on top - whether hi or low - will make it sound forty and/or crackly. I would concentrate on gear that is used well with its limits and has room to be pushed. Anyway, back to the topic. Bass needs to be in a certain frequencie range... otherwise it's not bass.
I agree with you on that DMTio, but then again please go back to my original post: "No, no. Bass "lines" are actually made of individual notes, each occupying a narrow slice of the frequency range. Some basslines occupy larger chunks of the frequency range - especially if the have their notes doubled in octaves - but most basslines are pretty straightforward in the frequency range and stay in quite a narrow band." However, one bassline can be higher in what you describe as the "bass" frequency range that the other bassline. This way they would not bother each other so much. You can't simply think of all basslines as being alike and also as being these huge slabs of unmoving frequencies that just sit there in a song. Please understand, that I am not saying all basslines will work on top of each other all the time, but there are conditions where there will be two basslines playing on top of each other and sounding as if it was the best thing you ever heard. And I do agree that there are instances where two basslines will have an overpowering output and result in an undesirable effect. However, some people suggested that two basslines will never work well together and that is simply not true. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Bad_Chemistry replied on Tue Oct 31, 2006 @ 1:18am |
| Coolness: 73995 | Alright, when you said holes I thaught you ment in the frequencies, like for example one bassline will be strong at 90 hz and dead at 75 hz and vice versa. Thank god I was wrong on that one... my bad.
As far as this goes: Bass 1: C_C_E_CCC_E_C_CC
Bass 2: _C_D_C_E_C_D_C_E Yeah if you had a bass line like those 2 it would probably work... but good luck finding that. The problem is that if your mixing music in a somewhat similar genre with another song, the bass lines are usually similar in structure. Don't forget your kick drums either... those basterds RAPE the low frequencie range. There's a reason technology like sidechaining exists. Compound all those factors together and finding two bass-lines that work well together is really hard. As far as the big club sound-systems go... yeah your right. I could probably layer 8 bass-lines while peeing on the mixer and it would still sound alright. They all have have dedicated compressers/limiters and whatnot to make there sound good... the problem is you can't rely on always having amazing gear. As a dj your judged by every performance. Nobody wants a dj who is good on some days and horrible on others. You can't always choose what your playing on... actually the truth is you usually never have much say at all. Sometimes when I'm producing I'll play my stuff threw the shittiest speakers I can find, just to see if it sounds alright there too. As far as basslines being higher in the bass band then the other... I guess some basslines can be louder at certain specific frequencies then others. Like an Acid bassline might be pretty high in the spectrum even somehwere around 110 hz while a jungle bass line will probably be much lower around probably 70hz or so. Thing is though that even if your peaks are in different places, there will still be alot of frequencies in the same range that could very easily add up and cause distortion. Yeah your right two basslines *could* work well together... just it's fucking ridicuously hard to find two that will. Actually I listened to your mix, and although I could be wrong, I never heard you mix two basslines together ever. If you honestly have a mix where you got two basslines to work well together please send it to me... I'd be really interested in hearing it. |
| I'm feeling stressed right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Da_Hand replied on Tue Oct 31, 2006 @ 9:23am |
| Coolness: 42950 | LOL, yeah that mix is by no means exemplary of this subject. It was just an excerpt of what I played in Lyon, France that night - but it was not a big club. I'll try to record my mix at the Arcadia festival night - it may have more examples of what I am talking about - depending on what I play.
Cool, that at least we are on the same page - as in understanding what each is saying :) As far as the sound system, yes, I agree you cannot expect each sound system to handle all situations, but at the same time you cannot limit yourself to the lowest common denominator. When you have a bad sound system, or a weak one, then yes, you will have to hold back. When you have a good sound system you have to know how to push it too. That, in my opinion, is also part of DJing. Lastly, I produce music as well, and so I know the "rule" of making sure that things sound good on bad / shitty speakers too. I tend to not go that route anymore so much. If a person has shitty speakers then that is their problem. Yes, I'll make sure that it sound ok, but I rather focus on making sure things sound really good one where it counts. If you listen to pop music, for example, on a good sound system - especially a club system, it will not sound good at all. It is very treble heavy and gets annoying fast. A good club tune, will sound amazing on a club system, but may not sound as catchy on grandma's kitchen radio. You can't win them all and so it is in the balance of what situations you want your music to sound good in or where it needs to sound good. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Omni replied on Wed Nov 1, 2006 @ 9:28am |
 Coolness: 88485 | Murdock Rock, since you seem interested in the subject, the new Pioneer DJM-800 also has key correction. You might want to take a look at it: [ www.pioneer.co.uk ] |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» MURDOCK_ROCK replied on Wed Nov 1, 2006 @ 11:22am |
| Coolness: 84785 | that acctually looks like a pretty fuckin' cool mixer!!! |
| I'm feeling stuck in fat vagina right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Da_Hand replied on Wed Nov 1, 2006 @ 12:18pm |
| Coolness: 42950 | Cool mixer! The pitch correction and midi capability make it a very interesting tool indeed. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» GRASP replied on Wed Nov 1, 2006 @ 8:18pm |
 Coolness: 66210 |  |
| I'm feeling like yammin pooch right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» MURDOCK_ROCK replied on Thu Nov 2, 2006 @ 9:34am |
| Coolness: 84785 | i prefer the hairy nutsack method...
dialect is dope... i ended up tagging with him early morning steez at this party... it was funny.... cuz you could see our genitals!! breaks dj's are well endowed. |
| I'm feeling stuck in fat vagina right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» AlienZeD replied on Thu Nov 2, 2006 @ 11:39am |
 Coolness: 510470 | uhhhh |
| I'm feeling weekend, oops right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» MURDOCK_ROCK replied on Thu Nov 2, 2006 @ 11:55am |
| Coolness: 84785 | sorry zed...
i can't help it if you have "trance in your pants"... |
| I'm feeling unicorn friendly right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» rawali replied on Thu Nov 2, 2006 @ 9:08pm |
 Coolness: 141595 | ok... so what if you have two subs (one for each channel)... although I do understand, we are talking about a sketchy set-up and i'd never try shit like that but... two basslines, same key, beatmatched with pitch correction... would the noise cancellation still be an issues? Update » rawali wrote on Sun Nov 5, 2006 @ 10:18am noise cancelation... i mean dephasing from overlapping bass |
| I'm feeling fucking blissful right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Emm replied on Tue Dec 5, 2006 @ 6:14pm |
 Coolness: 46995 | I think it's important for people to understand that DJing is a performance artform, not a science. breaking the rules done creatively and can make the crowd go nuts. It all depends on the style you're spinning, the crowd your playing for, and the room you're playing in. |
| I'm feeling harder december 16th right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» mAd-kiloZ replied on Sun Dec 31, 2006 @ 7:40am |
 Coolness: 92075 | ..."just do it- tsé- nikel"?"............................................................................. following paragragh consists of the following style(z) of mixing actions.. .........haute performance/freestyle/putting sounds in sink/phazer effects*) ....skratch-tak-tak-together-(no vacation(fade in fade out... thats not what the faderz are for) ....if your sounds are not together - bring the kick melody snare clap fart back to z start... don t waste time if your sounds r out of control - you dont have it on - start again.
-phazerfx are a sign that your amature (no longer a poser).. yet it is megass steps. so try taking 2 of the exact same tracks start them at the same time if you are aware that they are tight together mold the soundz with your GAINs- hi-mid-lowS (sub-allen+heath) attempt various moves which result to never ending possibilities in the final results.... closer to the fazer... fazer fx modes r touchy i won t continue that idea.... .... in my case i am destined 2 hypersensitive-perfectionist-puke- sound terrorista ... in other words i ill not put end to sound addiction ... others give up-bordom -or do it to score diva dj doomed to rude a awakening... again "what i am trying to say" don t give up.... especially if you lose interest... download mixes-lives- buy knew rekords.... point of installation setting the sound6tm-mixer- VOLUMeZ.... all sooo important.... yet many dj s continue clueless to the realities.... even if u have been 4 yearz... nothing pisses me off more than sound waste..... the fact is mixing\djuhing on unfamiliar soundkits means rAw wAr ok.... truth is I can relate to tooo many artist fartist djs need to have a basik set up when mixing... we do place the volumes in a x possition . .. i relate and exchange all experience with europian beings,bien sur! WHY... beacause they fukin create out of c sound mass who build more fuking soundz....wallz of sound... a 4 ever growing disscovery to all interested.... over 500 soundsystems have been confinescated in europe-england alone.. thousands of soundsytem kollective krews make-build REAL high class noize. ) once u understand-feel the mix ... it hurts to deal with nonsense sound installations. oh europians r not the only peeps i can trust for sound ,,,, attention we r 15-20 sound activists in ntksoundkit . and the half of us r from here que. =-)( #1+#1 reason i am speaking of all this sound non sense that u might not understand are because of LOKAL producer\ dj pro-masters of the art.... "djette-julie d" +&+"my masta matante mutante" 15+ yrs experience-REPRESENT kebec quuoi!) )u must mix on the big sound... .. meaning: master volume under the reds until u r pro_ soo many victims to soundbleed crowds even djs won t be aware that they r harming the earz life span..... i u see ... yet other may be oversensitive in that case find your sound... feel it... the sound not your thingy!pfffheheheheheheh know your soundz. don t go polluting innocent earz. i now... have zero TOLLERANCE for fukerz damaging innocent eardrumz if i hear dj-promoterz disrespecting i will react.... (exception on the noize events... bring earplugs... the montreal noize happenings... could result in louder=noize..... = in your earz ringing 4 dayz.... this is the longest post i will ever write on this site... so if you you have understood nothing or feel my imput is pointless... je m en callisse .... point of no return r sounds speak of... monte le son.... mtl-quebec sound-participants.... ReSpEcTs to u. --------mad-kiloz_sourd6tmZ_ntk---------- Update » mAd-kiloZ wrote on Sun Dec 31, 2006 @ 7:54am [ 3voor12.vpro.nl ]
--Jeff Amadeus - Dj-set op r-AW P60 22-4-2006---- known for quality tekno... this mix is chill dark tek but YES he mixes hardkor-gabber with class! --Simon Underground - Dj-set op r-AW P60 22-4-2006------drum n bass with hardkor tekno kicking about. --Rude Awakening DJ-set op Club r_AW 26-2-2006------have fun ! du pur son. u don t have to download just listen.... |
| I'm feeling éko6tèm hum kayyy right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Lone_Star replied on Tue Jan 2, 2007 @ 10:25pm |
 Coolness: 153965 | truth be told; straight up and served cold. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Deadfunk replied on Thu Jan 4, 2007 @ 3:45pm |
 Coolness: 153915 | this is the worst text posted on [ rave.ca ] ever ... |
| I'm feeling the bass right now.. | |
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