French In Montreal...
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» mtl_mtl replied on Wed Apr 20, 2005 @ 10:45pm |
 Coolness: 55785 | hey, maybe I can refer to more than one post at a time in a thread. and yes, you are an ego maniac, it's so fucking weird how you are totally unlike this is n person.
Maybe next time you see your name, you will associate it with the line / paragraph it is posted in, instead of the whole post. don't get greedy. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» neoform replied on Wed Apr 20, 2005 @ 10:47pm |
 Coolness: 339950 | nah, you wont see me next time in person, after wasting my whole saturday last week i will have nothing to do with anyone from synergy in the future thanks. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» mtl_mtl replied on Wed Apr 20, 2005 @ 10:57pm |
| Coolness: 55785 | ... |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» neoform replied on Wed Apr 20, 2005 @ 10:59pm |
| Coolness: 339950 | yeah sure, hey, i didn't mind sitting at home waiting for you guys to never come and get the equipment all day only to be told after 9 hours to sitting on my thumbs "oh, wait, we don't need it.. bye".
but hey, that's cool, you guy's don't need an "egoist" like me anyway. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» blah123 replied on Wed Apr 20, 2005 @ 11:00pm |
| Coolness: 47155 | Originally posted by DJNEOFORM...
umm, quebec isn't a country, and canada's official language is english/french.. that's why there's english in the healthcare system. yeah? I never said otherwise. Qubec can have their own healthcare system, with its own language, it has nothing to do with the language of the rest of Canada's language. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» neoform replied on Wed Apr 20, 2005 @ 11:03pm |
| Coolness: 339950 | Originally posted by ASTRO*NUT...
yeah? I never said otherwise. Qubec can have their own healthcare system, with its own language, it has nothing to do with the language of the rest of Canada's language. sure it can.. but quebec government likes to pretend like it's not part of canada, and ignores that there are english people here.. and that canada is mostly english.. bah what am i saying, this is coming out wrong.. blah. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» blah123 replied on Wed Apr 20, 2005 @ 11:33pm |
| Coolness: 47155 | yeah, its just not an easy topic to talk about i guess... |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» moondancer replied on Thu Apr 21, 2005 @ 12:13am |
 Coolness: 92550 | i think everything said is true but you have to think of the future. a good way to predict the future is to look at the past.
how many languages and cultures have been assimiliated away? what makes you think we`d be any different if we didnt do soemthign to stop it? you can`t base the fate of an entire culture on a few hurt feelings. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Toltech replied on Thu Apr 21, 2005 @ 1:00am |
 Coolness: 145705 | Im glad I learned French before English cause I realise that it's harder than English....at least when you start off not knowing either....maybe the whole Bill 101 deal is because French Canadians dont reproduce themselves so much.....do French in France have that same feeling? Oh wait yes they do.....ever heard the joke "What's the second most spoken language in France?....French!" (the 1st one being Arabe, brainiac :b)
The next ones to get this "we're gonna lose our culture" feeling on this continent are the Americans cause us spics are spreading like cucarachas hehehehe...so yeah maybe it's all about reproduction....just like my East L.A. posee would say "we dont die, we multiply" :b I dont wanna be a pesimist but cultures evolve or die all the time and history has never shown differently. Just like mentioned on the 1st post, aboriginals are not nearly ruling this land anymore...I guess it only matters depending to what degree you care.....and it seems that people only care when it comes to their own culture....I dont even know what my point is anymore....on that note, it's really late so good night. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» ADDJ replied on Thu Apr 21, 2005 @ 3:53am |
 Coolness: 42805 | I don't think it's about anglos feeling threatened - more excluded?
And the last time I checked, my passport said "Canada" on it... |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» moondancer replied on Thu Apr 21, 2005 @ 4:30am |
| Coolness: 92550 | yeah we are in canada but we have our own language just like catalan has it`s own language and if someone feels "excluded" there is a hell of a lot more of Canada for them to move into. You don`t go to india and then complain that all the product labels are written in indian. The french came here first, they have the right to preserve their language and their culture and they also have the right to exclude you. When you or your parents moved here they did so knowing that it is french, they accepted those conditions and you can get away form those conditions anytime you please. you can`t just move into a different culture and complain it isn`t enough like your own. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» cactain_steef replied on Thu Apr 21, 2005 @ 11:05am |
 Coolness: 154960 | but ..according to some of my friends' parents... montreal was a predominantly english metropolis.. as in the street signs were english, people came here to do business in english, and signs did not have to have french letters that were bigger than the english ones (in the 60s up until like..15 years ago).. BO! so things are changing, hein. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» cinderella_soul replied on Thu Apr 21, 2005 @ 11:24am |
 Coolness: 56485 | yes, and as I read yesterday, in response to the predominantly english quebec the government passed bill 101 to accomodate the french people more. No one ought to be excluded. I'm still not sure about nature of the laws that were passed. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» SebastianPrelar replied on Thu Apr 21, 2005 @ 11:36am |
 Coolness: 65075 | I never really thought I'm speaking french. I call it "french dialect" |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» mtl_mtl replied on Thu Apr 21, 2005 @ 12:26pm |
| Coolness: 55785 | Originally posted by MOONDANCER...
yeah we are in canada but we have our own language just like catalan has it`s own language and if someone feels "excluded" there is a hell of a lot more of Canada for them to move into. You don`t go to india and then complain that all the product labels are written in indian. The french came here first, they have the right to preserve their language and their culture and they also have the right to exclude you. When you or your parents moved here they did so knowing that it is french, they accepted those conditions and you can get away form those conditions anytime you please. you can`t just move into a different culture and complain it isn`t enough like your own. actually, the native americans were here first, but no one gives a flying fuck about their culture or language so honestly, this isn't really a morality or fairness issue. And my family, while Anglo, has been here longer than Canada has been here - and it certainly wasn't in french possession when we got here. That being said, Quebec is definitely the best province in Canada. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» v.2-1 replied on Thu Apr 21, 2005 @ 1:25pm |
 Coolness: 159405 | Like RepentTokyo said, native americains were indeed here first.
how many languages and cultures have been assimiliated away? what makes you think we`d be any different if we didnt do soemthign to stop it?
Do something about what ? What anglos are actually interested in assimilating the french people today ? Americans ? There are just as much Wal-Marts and McDonalds as anywhere in the States, what assimilation needs to be done ? And I don't think Ontario or any other province has " get rid of pesky Quebec " on its agenda. I'm finding only Quebec is unbelievably paranoid about this issue while the rest of the country is going " dude, I wouldn't want to assimilate you if my life depended on it. Honestly, the last thing I need is a horrific Olympic Stadium in my backyard ". you can`t base the fate of an entire culture on a few hurt feelings.
Then why do younger quebec kids and teens bitch about anglos and about stupid-ass bickering that happened between our cultures more than 200 years ago ? Seriously, if these people took a good look around them, they'd see the age old animosity between english and french is loooong gone and only live on in the resentment their parents have passed upon them. Misplaced resentment that has no place in the open-minded symbiotic culture our province has become. We should embrace what it has become and get with the times already. This isn't Louis Riel's reality, it's the 21st century. As Fancylung stated, 100 years ago, EVERYTHING in Montreal was written in english because business was done in english so I feel if my ancestor bitched about it, he was some sort of a hypocrite because he had a choice to NOT work in english and find a job in a factory owned by french-canadians. Which would've been around 3% in Montreal circa 1900. I feel today's " french hates english " comparison is nothing but passed on irrational fear of a language you're afraid of, bearily understand and are too proud too learn as a french-canadian. Which I find is worse than racism. Racism is based on skin color AND culture, among other things. What we have here is discrimination on people who are EXACTLY the same as us, same colour, live the same way with the exact same values and similar background but they speak a different language. Désolé pour le long message. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Mr_Frog replied on Thu Apr 21, 2005 @ 2:51pm |
 Coolness: 97385 | Je vais écrire en français puisque ca parle de ça justement! ;)
Les jeunes d'aujourd'hui, les "enfants de la loi 101" comme on les appelle, sont nés avec les acquis que cette loi nous a apporté. Souvent, personne ne se rends compte des impacts que cette loi a eu, nous avons grandit avec les acquis de la loi 101 et nous n'avons pas connu l'avant de tout ca. Ce n'était pas uniquement "contre" l'anglais, mais aussi "contre" le Grec, l'Italien et l'Hébreux, communautés très importantes a cette époque, qui ne parlait qu'en leur langue ou qu'en anglais, et qui n'avaient aucun français dans leur commerce. Cette loi a été une loi exemplaire a travers le monde, plusieurs États ont emboitté le pays afin de proteger leur langue officielle. Cette loi et ce qui va autour est encore plus essentielle dans un pays ou la croissance demographique se fait essentiellement par l'immigration, comme ici au Quebec. Oui, historiquement, le peuple Cana-ien-França a toujours du se battre pour survivre malgré l'oppression indirecte des peuples anglophones qui detenaient tous les capitaux. Oui, l'histoire, c'est le passé et c'est très loin de la réalité d'aujourd'hui, mais il faut aussi savoir tirer des leçons du passé. Une société multi-culturelle, une société où les gens parlent plusieurs langues, c'est une société idéale. Parler plusieurs langues, c'ets une richesse et ça ne veut pas dire perdre son identité culturelle. Proteger la langue officielle et identitaire de sa nation et la faire respecter, c'est une question de société, de proteger sa langue officielle/nationale, de s'assurer qu'elle soit toujours aussi présente dans plusieurs décénnies et de respecter son peuple qui parle cette langue. Ce n'est pas du racisme, ni de l'intolérance, vraiment loin de la. Si je demenage en norvege, j'apprendrai le norvegien, sans abandonner mon français avec mes compatriotes, je travaillerai dans la langue qu'il faut pour communiquer, j'commencerais pas a dire que les Norvégiens sont des maudits racistes parce qu'ils ne veulent pas que j'parle uniquement français et que j'ouvre un commerce en parlant juste Français et Anglais. Meme si je suis bilingue, y'a rien qui me pue le plus au nez que de me faire servir uniquement en Anglais, que d'avoir des meeting de direction a la job uniquement en anglais, qu'on me fournisse uniquement de la documentation au travail uniquement en anglais (pas juste des trucs liés a l'informatique, ou la langue internationale est l'Anglais). Je travaille avec plusieurs anglophones, et avec le temps, une relation se créé, il me parle en Français, je lui parle en Anglais, c'est une question de respect et c'est cool. Comme mentionné plus haut, souvent, un groupe de 10 francophones qui parlent ensemble, un anglophone se joint, et tout le monde switch en Anglais, c'est assez drole désolant, surtout en milieu de travail au Québec! Pour ce qui est des francophones qui ne parlent pas anglais, c'est eux qui ont un probleme. Depuis plusieurs dizaines d'années, l'Anglais est appris au primaire a partir de la 4e année jusqu'en secondaire 5, et au cegep (obligatoire) pour ceux qui y vont. Personne n,a aucune excuse aujourd'hui de dire qu'il n'est pas capable de lire/écrire un texte en anglais a part de jamais avoir été a l'école ou d'être vraiment pas bon a l'école. J'peux comprendre que coté parlé, ca suce, surtout quand tu ne parles pas souvent, mais sinon, tout Québécois de 35 ans et moins devrait comprendre l'Anglais sans prob. A partir de septembre prochain, les jeunes vont apprendre l'anglais a partir de la 1ere année, donc tous vont etre bilingue avec presque pas le "Quebec Accent" que beaucoup (dont moi) ont. Pis c'est une bonne chose, notre État est entouré d'États anglophones, et se replier sur sois-même ce n'est vraiment pas l'option, communiquer et s'ouvrir sur le monde sans abondonner notre langue, ca se fait, comme j'ai dit, parler plusieurs langues, c'est une très grande richesse, richesse que j'aimerais avoir beaucoup plus! |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» v.2-1 replied on Thu Apr 21, 2005 @ 3:31pm |
| Coolness: 159405 | Ya X-Frog. Je suis d'accord. Mon message faisait seulement état des extrémistes, chose qui me gosse royalement. Tu parles d'ÉGALITÉ et de respect envers les français autant que les anglais et c'est drette ça qu'on a besoin.
Oui en effet, si tu parles français tu devrais être servi en français parce qu'un anglais qui parle pas français à la job est aussi pire que l'inverse. Pas de pitié pour ça plus. La loi 101 par contre a fait sa job. Mais elle est encore appliquée avec fanatisme par une organisation qui a la chienne d'être révolue et de perdre leur job. Ça me fait drôlement penser à l'église catholique, tiens, qui refuse d'évoluer et de s'adapter aux besoins modernes. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Mr_Frog replied on Thu Apr 21, 2005 @ 3:49pm |
| Coolness: 97385 | Bah, même les libéraux de Robert Bourrassa, de Daniel Johnson Jr et de Jean Charest ont promis de ne jamais toucher a la loi 101, comme de ne jamais rapatrier la constitution, même si un tres haut pourcentage de leur electorat sont des fédéralistes convaincus et des anglophones.
La loi 101 pour l'affichage, au debut, ne permettait que de l'affichage unilingue français. La loi a été modifié plus tard par les libéraux par la loi 86. Pour ce qui est de la langue d'education en français si tu es francophones ou que tu as des parents francophones ou que tu es un immigrant recu au Quebec, c'est totalement logique, surtout avec l'enseignement de l'anglais a partir de la première année. Si tu veux faire une immersion de tes enfants en anglais pour qu'ils n'aient pas d'accent Québecois, envoit les dans des camps d'été anglophone! |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» kimochi replied on Thu Apr 21, 2005 @ 4:02pm |
 Coolness: 61485 | cédric t'es mon héro! :) |
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