it's officially still winter

someone compile the photos and ill make the gif

drugs are bad mmmkay?

seriously.

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purely morning psy but smooth and melodic in a nice way I think... all comments/criticisms welcome
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YOU SPILLED BEER?! and it was free?? as in beer?!

HOME WRECKKER!

Cannibalistic Humanoid Underground Dwellers!!!

check please!

jeniferweah2@yahoo.ca

Hello dear,my name is miss jenifer weah i am so happy to read your profile at [ [ www.rave.ca ] ] i will like us to know each other and to establish a strong relationship.contact me on jeniferweah2@yahoo.ca to enable me share my picture with you and for you to know me more in further comminication.have a nice day.

jenifer

not paidness ftl!

aight, so not use-less... just it doesn't always serve it's predetermined purpose... like getting paid.

poke-a-hoe

bird?

contracts are useless... you can't sue anyone for peanuts...

face on!

thanx man I really do appreciate it.
i made this

before reading your post... so i still got works to do.

yeah I gotta fix that spacing too... and I know photos of the djs are cheap... but it makes it feel more colorful and there will catch those ADDer's :)

aight....

did I not write: "you know people say they'll do it for guestlist but expect to bring their 2-3 closest friends... and heck they'd deserve more"

not only is that NOT me asking anyone to do anything for a guestlist, but it also clearly states that I believe even 4 guestlist isn't enough... READ what I wrote before quoting me to prove yourself wrong...



and I wouldn't offer you even close to that so we're in perfectly harmony!



wtf, is a client DID know shit about design then they wouldn't be hiring you! and the rest of that, well it sounds like some clients do go out of control... it happens in every business but in the end, if you don't provide a product the client wants, it's business lost for you, not them.


Dude, if they aren't happy with it, then it's clearly not what they asked for. Logic.


For every good designer, there's 8 crappy ones (i'm part of those 8 ;))



That's not doing business the right way, who the hell do you think you are? YOUR mistakes should not be costing the client money.. I understand that graphic design is not an exact science but then it should be YOUR job, the pro, to make sure you're going in the right direction before putting in any time you can't take back. Otherwise you are not doing YOUR job.


I completely agree, and flyer design is what I decided to CUT. My choice... it's not your business to hate on me for it... or wait... actually I guess it is.


Welcome to reality chummmmmmm-p.


Oh i have the technical skills, I just suck as a graphic artist, no skills.



Good god! When did I ask anyone to actually do anything for free? I mean, you were helpful in your first post in my thread... wasn't so hard to just touch on a few points and I appreciate it in case you didn't know... don't need you telling me how to throw my party tho...

I've made a few flyers and they are alright... I'm more of a functionalist than a designer so for me good looks is even slightly less important than legibility and clarity... also I almost as a rule put all my fonts White with black stroke so that black lights make it shine... after all I do most of my promo at psy parties...

can't/won't pay someone this time but I KNOW that if I want an amazing flyer that is what I would need to do. I'm not stupid, just cheap, this time.
also, the printer should have no trouble with my 300dpi CMYK 4x6inch image...

typo wise, yeah it's not stellar... any ideas?

for the record, I don't know this guy personally...


quote up or shut up, that never happened! I have done business with graphic designers in the past in return for guest lists and some cash, but never anything as cheap as what you describe... it was more like 3 guest passes and 60$. I've never been willing to pay the real price for my flyers, I'm sorry but when your total budget is 3.5 grand, you can't afford another 200$ on top of the printing cost to get a flyer out... OK if you're party has international headliners and you need promo to be the do all and end all of promotions then yeah ok pay someone well and get a good product.
[rant]You fucking graphic designers make me sick though! I've had horrible experience with graphic designers who charge 50$/h in my web dev job and never get the job done. You ask for a nice complete piece of work and when you notice how much it SUCKS they ask for you to double their wage to come back with something decent and then it's still not done so you're ten hours into something that they assured you would take 4, you're doubly over budget and you still don't have the whole thing done. Is your job worth that 30$/h average? Yes, if you deliver, but most graphic artists are spoiled brats who only deliver when you're already way over budget and refuse to give you the base materials you paid for until they get their ransom cash. fuck you Leila![/rant]

seriously though graphic designers don't make me sick. Annie did my flyer for Black Magik for the last two years, I'd like to think I paid her a decent little sum... maybe not 50$/h but enough to make it worth her time.
my real problem is the lack of stratification in the industry... what happened to skilled people who like their work enough to help a brother out every now and then... we all know the most I could possibly make from throwing my party is gonna be like 500$ and I'm putting in mad hours, made budget and mad effort to get it all going... it's not fair for someone who is taking care of 5% of the event to make even close to half what I am making MAX IF things go really well. So yeah, it takes time, skill and effort but I'm not Apple here, I don't have a 4.3 million dollar Ad budget aight?

all in all who can afford what you say you cost? these 'never ending' paid by the hour jobs only work when you're Mister Moneybags


and I don't own a monocle.


out of the goodness of their heart... when the guy involved isn't profiting directly from said secrets. To be nice, to help out... etc...



That's just unrealistic for most of our events though... where do you think all our money comes from? We charge 20$ at the door, everyone complains that it's already too expensive, we lose money most of the time and YOURE not making ENOUGH?! fuck man, what do you want from us?
I'm not paying my bills from any of this either so don't act like i'm a hypocrite or I'm trying to squeeze you and your talents out of all the juicy sweet nectar of creative awesomeness!
I didn't ask anyone to work for free, I'm not pretending I'm a skilled graphic designer or anything close. I post a pic and say:"Hey how could it be improved?" Am I really so evil for that?

Know about what?

well said :)

We all want to have fun but it's not always fun if we pay more than you do and have to stay sober, lol, this is just party goer to party goer... I don't think i'm better than ANYONE at any party... I just want our responsibilities and activities treated respectively

but in my mind I do aim for more of the 'show' aspect... we throw all night concerts in a way...xcept no live bands. When you get great sound and beautiful deco, you can create a whole little world that lasts a night... those experiences are the ones you remember. It's all about creating a perfect environment for a totally new experience and crafting every aspect of the night into making that experience complete and immersive.

btw the second you don't personally know the guy throwing the event or you 'pay' to get in, it's commercial.

but if you prefer listen to 'ok' music mixed poorly with no sound impact but a generally chill atmosphere... and pay virtually nothing, more power to you... that can be fun too!

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justement!

ça il l'avait prévu par contre!


eeeeehhhh, shameless thread digging, got the back online check it and destroy it with words!!
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wtf

Will you tell me about it?

on topics or stfu!

the parties I throw cost me about 4000$, i need that 20$ at the door... if I get over like 210 people, I break even...but I bring the Djs, and I pay the DJs!, and sound and deco, non cheap high quali-T style. i too often feel like the exception instead of the rule tho :(



fixed, otherwise good post!



oh, i don't buy music at all really, unless I play it out; gotta have those waves you know? i've always offered my crappy beats out for free though so i'm no hypocrite... i just believe in a different music/money relationship

no one owes me anything but as much as I love to mix and love to share my tunes, I strongly believe that mixing at an 'event' requires a certain professionalism and responsibility that doesn't straight up flow with 'having fun'. There's pressure on a DJ to provide something 'special' and it is hard to be positive when the promoter's making cash while you are losing cash. Again, not targeting anyone with that... just talking hypothetically... I generally do get paid by the way so I'm not really complaining, just supporting a position.



I told you the same thing on msn, just in a lot shorter... but of course I'm open to counter offers and your night was actually pretty fun. katacombes is a chill place, very cool architecture.



all in all, when it's 'work', everyone should expect to get paid when money IS involved.

and there's always exceptions.

not saying the costs are huge but I dunno, I feel like I do deserve to NOT spend money to play at this point... but I guess if it's not fun for me when I am not making at least a basic wage, then maybe I'm in it for the wrong reasons... I love the music and I love to share it, within reason...
and of COURSE i've put my fair share of money into it already.. talkin' CDJs, music, throwin' parties, etc.. when I'm booked I really do feel like I should be earning more than I spend... like my 60$ figure... that did NOT include the money I spend on beatport before every gig.. :\

i'm only gonna comment on the 'DJs aint gettin' paid' aspect of this... cause I like Jesse and although I don't share all his views, he's always been cool with me.

I don't care where the party is, how many people there are, who's playing before or after, how long the night is open for, the sound system, deco, other artists, WHATEVER.

when I party I drink a six pack, 20$. Oh you can find them cheaper? i round up ok so sue me!
When I go to the party, if I choose to take the bus, that's my choice, i should be able to take a cab cause I'm lugging gear. 20$
when I leave the party, it's prolly past 3 and even if it's past 6am, I shouldn't have to take the metro/bus, cab number 2. 20$
So 60$ is what I SPEND to mix. Let's not even talk about the music you need to buy, the time spent practising, the crazy expo gear you need to practice enough, etc...
60$ = costs of the night.
So if I'm getting 60$, i'm getting 0 dollars... listen if I choose to walk or take the bus ok maybe I profited a bit, so that's my business.
So let's say I make 80$, 60$ cost (fuck off I already explained this!) i'm making less than 20$/hour... I could make more adding a few words of text to a website for 30 minutes...
so when do I get interested? 100$ minimum for me to actually care (barring other circumstances)
And even with that, no one gets booked day of, so what if your sick the day of or you're just wiped out (tired) and you really DON'T want to go out, these things happen right? So you feel like shit, the promoter's paying you 60$, thinks he's being generous, and you basically break even to get sicker... not cool. really not.

That's the tip of the iceberg!

DJs who spin for 20$, makes promoter not even consider someone like me, who isn't being greedy but just understands the frickin' costs of life.
Djs who spin for 20$, not worth more than 20$ for the promoters. Makes promoters never want to spend more than 20$. catch 22

Now let's look at the promoter:
-It's gonna be a small party so I can only afford to pay you 20$.
"Do I really need to be spinning at a tiny ass party? Is it your birthday? are you my friend? Do I 'owe' you one? What kind of rep does a DJ who spins in front of 4 people get? Do you KNOW what it feels like to spin for 4 people? Feels like I need to get a real job, that's what, at best! At worst makes me feel like shit."
If you can't afford that, you shouldn't be throwing an event...You can't tell people what they are worth either. You don't go to McDonalds and tell them what price you want to pay. You don't go ANYWHERE and tell THEM what price you want to pay, what am I, eBay? If you can't afford to pay a DJs cost, you're straight up insulting the guy/gal and if you can't make enough to pay them then you or your event just plain sucks and I'd be HAPPY to not be there waisting my time, effort and health to play at a crap event that can't pay for itself.
-We're not charging at the door or it's dirt cheap so spin for free!
How are you paying for sound, deco, DJ gear? Are those elements even gonna be half decent? Do I even want to spin on your 'free' sound system that's gonna make me sound like shit regardless of what I do? Do i want to be associated with 'free' parties? Should parties be 'free'? If these kids can't afford a 10$ tickets, shouldn't they go back to school or get a job instead of partying more? Drugs, the hard cheap ones, destroy you! These parties incite drug use, let's be honest here aight? is it actually a good sustainable idea to create an environment where people can destroy their brains for super cheap? How about weekdays too! nothing's sacred anymore. What ever happened to things costing what they were worth as opposed for the bare minimum they can. How is this party going to make people feel about the scene? You charge nothing, make nothing, provide nothing. Way to scare people nice and far from the quality you know we do have, sometimes.
-It's not about the money so why don't you just share your love for music for free?
It's not free, it's 60$ out of my pocket. We've been through this.
-You didn't bring enough people so I can't pay you what you were promised.
No, YOU didn't bring enough people. A DJ's job is to play good music, not to constantly pester all their friends and plead with people to come see them spin on a weeknight when it's fucking cold outside, they are sick, their mom just died and they lost their job. Listen, my friends are my friends, not my fans, they ain't gonna pay to come see me spin 4 times a month and I don't have 60 friends anyway, i got 2-4 really good friends and they'll come see me if THEY feel like partying, not because I got booked. Fans, well fans are sort of created on the fly. When you expect someone to come see you spin all the time, you're expecting too much, people have lives.

The big clean proper events are awesome. The small cheap filler events need to be stopped! You don't water down your vodka just because you want to drink everyday, you wait for the weekend and it's THAT much better because you waited!

Just a quick note about the weeknight parties as of late: if you need to struggle to get people there, stop!!! Stop associating what should be a cool way to relax with your need to pay rent and/or inability to wait 5 days till the next event.

*I am not targeting anybody with any of this, this is not my opinion about the psy scene or anything specific... more just an aggregation of some of the feelings I've been privey too at some events over the course of the last year. I've always been a lame-raver in the sense that I would only go to 3-4 big parties a year, never done the pill-per-week thing, ever. ok WALL OF TEXT ftl

one off

rub

maybe it's a lyrics issue..

katacombes was very 42!

5chan!

Sorry what?